G-give it Back T---T; !! (Scholar Edition)

[Renathras]

Mate, we're all going to be aware that...

Please stop this.

Someone: Ren, why do you think...?
Me: <explains>
You/someone like you: Ren, we didn't need an explanation.

APPARENTLY WE DID, otherwise the initial question wouldn't have been asked. She literally asked me how I knew that, and I explained why it's reasonable for me to conclude it. That was straight up the question and the answer. You coming in to try to make out like I'm being pedantic or something for answering a question asked is part of the problem here. You didn't need to say that. You could have just recognized someone asked a question of another poster and said other poster answered it. Maybe you didn't like the answer, so you could have presented some counter-argument, but you chose instead to attack the poster's style than their content.

And it's not "largely beside the point"; it's literally the point. "How do you know <there aren't tanks asking for this>?" "Because we have a large sample size and have not seen anyone asking for this". That's literally the answer to the question.

If, as you've insisted, there are healers who ONLY want to heal, why would there not be tanks who similarly ONLY want to mitigate damage,

Because they aren't the same kinds of things?
Because they aren't the same kinds of players?
Because there's something fundamentally different between the two roles and they aren't the same role?

You just said above that everyone's aware of this "grade-school maxim", yet you then immediately turn around to suggest that these people must exist. Which is it?

It's not a "double-standard". When we get people SERIOUSLY ASKING FOR TANKS TO ONLY EMNITYSPAM AS A PLAYSTYLE, then we can discuss it. For my part, I'd be perfectly fine with one Tank Job working that way to appeal to those people, so I'm entirely consistent on this. But for that to even be on offer, we first have to have people actually wanting it. Right now, can you point to a single person who does?

Yet I can walk up to a mirror and point to a person that wants healing without a damage rotation.

We KNOW by examples people exist that want healers focused either more on healing, ONLY on healing, or at least NOT more on damage buttons/damage rotations. These people very much exist, as we have observed one.

We do NOT know that Tanks who want only Flashspam exist, as we have not seen any legitimate examples. If they do, they are a very small and quiet minority, and that's if they even do, as they may not at all.

AND EVEN IF THEY DID: That wouldn't strongly support this argument since (a) I'd advocate for them having one Job anyway and (b) Tank and Healer roles ARE NOT THE SAME. So trying to draw strong parallels between them is already a tough sell. Yes, you believe it, but you have not convinced everyone else to, and there's no evidence that a vast majority agrees with the notion that Tanks and Healers are more or less the same thing. You have some arguments of how they are the same, but they're not universally accepted, and they do not negate areas where they are different (and some of them aren't even accurate).

Here's the thing, though: The latter position isn't even one about making healing available. It's a position about restricting what other gameplay is even available to other players.

Not to be snarky, but this is, as it turns out, "largely beside the point". Her question wasn't about the specifics of requests, only the existence of them. Your personal take on the situation isn't relevant to that.

That's not a position worth placating.

I disagree. If people like a thing, then it's worth having it represented in the game if it can be done fairly and in a way balanced (in throughput/output) with others (that is, WHM Glarespam shouldn't be out-damaging other healers, it should be doing comparable damage; we see in cases like Tanks what happens when the balance is broken).

AND: That's your subjective opinion, not a factual statement. And has nothing at all to do with whether or not there are Tanks out there that want to be FF13 Sentinels that spam Flash and only do damage through Counter.

When we get Tank players seriously asking for a agro-only, non-damage, "Flashspam"/FF13 Sentinel playstyle, then we can discuss it. It cannot be used as support for a "healers should have more damage buttons across the board" argument when there's clearly a difference with Healer players asking for a heal only or less dps focused playstyle vs no visible presence of Tank players asking for a agro only playstyle. (AND, if there somehow WERE, I'd legitimately support one Tanking Job being made/added to the game/etc for them to get that, or if Tanks were already that way, which they are not, for one to remain that way for them.)

Summary (since I think people want that):

1) Explaining one's answer when someone is asked a question is not bad or "beside the point".
2) That one thing clearly exists does not prove that something else exists of which we have no evidence to support.
3) Your personal opinion is irrelevant to a question being asked of someone else.
4) Your personal assessment is not universal nor proof of a thing being a good or bad idea to do.
5) When we get Tank players seriously asking for a agro-only, non-damage, "Flashspam"/FF13 Sentinel playstyle, then we can discuss it. Until then, it's an irrational canard.