There was far less content in Heavensward than in Endwalker

[OgruMogru]

I miss HW enochian

[Carin-Eri]

I'm probably not quite as anti-Endwalker as many on this forum although I will add that, whilst I enjoyed it for the most part, there were certainly segments I didn't think were particularly great. The already mentioned time-travel plot being one example. And it doubled-down on making us play as NPCs too, which I hate.

I will admit that my biggest disappointment was that the expansion didn't really live up to the, frankly awesome, cinematic. Endwalker launched just as I started playing and I didn't therefore reach that part of the game until March 2022 and held off watching the cinematic until that point. I recall being blown away by it (particularly the music), and having watched various reaction videos since, I can say with some confidence that plenty of others felt/reacted the same way. I thought it was amazing - the leitmotifs using the theme music from the previous expansions was perfect and I adore the final movement of the musical piece.

But whilst I enjoyed it (for the most part) the story itself didn't quite deliver on what the cinematic depicted.

[FudoMyoo]

HW is the first expansion with 3 new classes.
HW has dragons.
HW introduces flying.
HW theme song is unbelievable. MSQ had many of us crying buckets.
HW expansion will always rank no.1 in my heart.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

HW is the first expansion with 3 new classes.
HW has dragons.
HW introduces flying.
HW theme song is the unbelievable. MSQ had many of us crying buckets.
HW expansion will always rank no.1 in my heart.

I mean technically ARR was the first expansion with 3 new jobs. But hw being the first expansion gives it a head start on any other.

[Jirah]

HW came out in 2015 and was the first expansion so rocky ramshackle design was expected as they had no routine to go off of with uncharted territory and for the most part “expanded” the game

EW came out in 2021 and is the 4th expansion so the routine was impeccably established, tiresomely so. Less story bits than SHB, less content than SHB, lesser dungeons than SHB, lesser 24 mans than SHB, less dungeons overall than SB/HW and is debatably rivaled SB and SHB for best expansion rather than typically surpassing them due to experience and cleaner design

[Renathras]

Honestly, it's more or less that people get tired of the same things after a while and want more. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but they could release something with identical content to SB today (something that people who hate EW say was the high point of the game) and there are people who would complain about it being low effort and not enough, etc.

The raid schedule has been mostly identical for the better part of a decade. 2 weeks isn't that much more time when people have raids on farm after 3-4 weeks anyway. So the change has been pretty insignificant, yet is played up like a huge change in content when it really hasn't been. For the hardcore.

For everyone else, though, especially the midcore, there's a lot less.

There was in HW, too, though. But most people honestly just forgot. Mr Happy points this out all the time and says that EW, for him, is a middling expansion. He rates them as SB/ShB (forget which is 1st and which 2nd, but those two) then EW, then ARR, then HW. HW had the story, but lacked most other things, and Happy says to this day it almost killed the game a second time.

[vetch]

I’m willing to forgive HW for two things

-good job design for the most part making content more interesting
-it’s the first time they tried a lot of things and almost all of them stuck (diadem being the big exception)

EW has bland job design and just rehashes what we have had for 3 expansions and gives less of it than the last two expansions

Endwalker is trying new things too, like Island Sanctuary and V/C Dungeons. It's just that they're, um, bad.

In three years or so, if they put in the time to rework Island Sanctuary and the V/C rewards like they reworked Diadem, it might actually be a good expansion on the repeatable content front.

Honestly, it's more or less that people get tired of the same things after a while and want more. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but they could release something with identical content to SB today (something that people who hate EW say was the high point of the game) and there are people who would complain about it being low effort and not enough, etc.

Let's try it and see.

[Raven2014]

This could be an an unpopular opinion but for me Heavenward was the "worst" expansion FF14 ever had. The HW today is one that has been fixed, patched up with most of the malcontent removed while retaining the only thing that made it good - the story. Especially if you're a new player who come in at the end or after the expansion, and just ... passing it by with glance, it's a fantastic one time stop on your journey. But it wasn't a fun expansion to live through:

- Crafting&Gathering: these days FF14 may be known for a more accessible experiment, the crafting&gathering in HW was so convoluted and grindy that it would make a Korean MMO blush in jealousy. It's not something most people even try then give up, but more like you took a look and decided "yeah this **** isn't worth my time". It was so bad that they had to repeatably neft the system almost every single major patch, and while some residue of the crafting system survived into later expansions (but made optional/irrelevant), by Shadowbringer everything introduced in 3.0 crafting except the Soul stone were removed. And you can still see some of the remnant in the gathering system still exists today, like how "regular" materials (like Mythrite ore) are semi-hidden, and how HW's material took the most raw to refine.

- Savage was so over tuned that it almost break the raiding community.

- Relic grind was identical to 2.0, abeit they did remove the most annoying part (books). Now I admit, it's better than what we have now in EW, but in the context of moving from 2.0 to 3.0 repeating the same grind, it wasn't something people excited about.

- And the classes ... oh boy, no matter how bad you think class balancing is at any other point of the game, they don't compare to the mess in 3.0, and I don't think there will ever be a bigger mess, some of the most prominent examples:

+ PLD was almost non-viable because it can't block magic. Requiring you either have invul or kitchen sink almost every mechanic. Remember how bad it was for PLD last tier because they can't block bleed? HW was like that, but worse, because you know ... there are far more magic attack then there are bleed.
+ AST didn't fair any better on the viable scale. I see another poster already mentioned it so I won't go into detail.
+ MCH was so unpopular that it had to spent the next 2 expansion reworking.
+ BRD received some stray shot from the MCH mess that see the major change it received in 3.0 completely reverted in 4.0.

- Diadem: one of the major piece and showcase content of Heavenward was pretty much DOA. The concept was so bad that even after being taken down, rework, the re-introduced Diadem 2.0 was also DOA ... again.

- They pushed the Nanamo vs Syndicate story line so far that the conclusion felt almost like a Recton and handwave.

- And just a reminder, especially for new people who came to the game recently: while the Firmanent is a very good piece content that is associated with Isghard, it was not HW's content. It was introduced in 5.1, almost five years after HW came out.



I honestly think had SE decided to be stubborn about the many bad designs in HW, they may have killed the game the second time. Or at least stagnant its growth for good while, similar to how Blizzard deal major damage to WoW when they decided to double down on the bad decision. I went hiatus from HW for over a year (which is the longest time I ever took a break from the game) after the first major patch, and only through some major coincidence and boredom that I decided to come back near the end of HW. Thanksfully, Stormblood got me hook, and while there are low and high point since, I'm fairly content with the game.

[Ririta]

And the classes ... oh boy, no matter how bad you think class balancing is at any other point of the game, they don't compare to the mess in 3.0, and I don't think there will ever be a bigger mess

Honestly that mess was the last time I cared about leveling up my jobs.
Now I pretty much only play black mage because I know there's nothing for me elsewhere.

Finding out that I had to spam Broil during AoE as a scholar day 1 of Stormblood was an experience.

[Ayden]

We also have to take release date into account. Patches are so far apart now.

2.4 28 oct 2014
2.5 20 Jan 2014 (2 months+)
2.55 31 Mar 2015 (2 months+)
3.0 19 Jun 2015 (2 months+)

6.4 23 May 2023
6.5 10 Oct 2023 (4 months+)
6.55 16 Jan 2024 (3 months+)
7.0 probably around 6 months