Zepla: The Players Endwalker Left Behind

[Vahlnir]

anything that makes me go through a Discord server to play immediately is out of my comfort zone

I am the exact same way. In my opinion, content shouldn't all but require a voice chat to clear it.

[Supersnow845]

I already put a comment on her video, but might as well drop one around here, I guess.

This whole "casual/midcore/hardcore" division is kinda messy, because while she sees Baldesion Arsenal as her midcore bridge, anything that makes me go through a Discord server to play immediately is out of my comfort zone. If something goes wrong (and on my first run, that's gonna be inevitable), I'm gonna have the risk of having some quad ultimate legend Limsa glam NPC screaming in my ear and I'm not about to risk it.
I'm not averse to dying. The two things I hate is feeling like I'm making no progress and feeling like I'm a burden to others while I'm learning, so what I'd consider my ideal "midcore bridge" has to be something that I can repeat until doing it is second nature, but that having me still learning wouldn't be a detriment to others.

What I suggested in the video is some content where you get tokens according to your individual performance. Something that doesn't stop or reset when you wipe, but rather gets delayed, while still rewarding trying to finish fast.
Some kind of "Survival" trial that has EX and/or Savage difficulty mechanics that you can learn by ramming your head against it until you figure it out. You died 17 times? You get 5 tokens. You didn't die? you get a 25 token bonus. The boss was killed too slow? No bonus tokens. You get your individual score tokens exclusively. Boss killed fast? +10 token party bonus.

Something that has rewards priced like the Gold Saucer: Some cheaper mounts, minions and emotes for newbies (like the 3k rewards from the Saucer), scaling in pricing to things like the 4 million mount from the Saucer for more dedicated players. Rewards that reward handsomely playing well while also providing a sense of progress and scaling for people that are still trying to get better.
A game mode that you can hop in at any time, completely disregarding Discord servers and Youtube tutorials, and say "I'm gonna go in and get some progress done" regardless of whether or not you ate every mechanic or if [The Ultimate Legend]������Lily Rainbowo������|Balmung decided that using a healing spell was a 0.073 DPS loss.

You have a really warped view of what the BA discords do

As a BA host in the biggest of the discords in the nicest way possible “you are a faceless drone to us” we like helping you clear but we would never call you out for anything, we’d never blame you for anything. We just ask if you have questions then carry on and calmly ask you to do things to help us clear, the only time someone is gonna get pissy in a BA run is if a caller made a deliberately stupid call or if you are actively griefing the run (which you won’t do by accident)

The discord is mostly there to dodge BA’s entry requirements and help with the fact that ozma has personal responsibility mechanics

[Eelanos]

You have a really warped view of what the BA discords do

As a BA host in the biggest of the discords in the nicest way possible “you are a faceless drone to us” we like helping you clear but we would never call you out for anything, we’d never blame you for anything. We just ask if you have questions then carry on and calmly ask you to do things to help us clear, the only time someone is gonna get pissy in a BA run is if a caller made a deliberately stupid call or if you are actively griefing the run (which you won’t do by accident)

It's not my view specifically on what BA discord does, it's what I'm afraid of facing after years of gaming. This is not a personal thing against the BA discord, this is a fear I've developed after years of playing online games, and the reason why I don't do any EX/Savage content at all.
That's why my ideal "midcore content" would be something I can check the EX/Savage trial mechanics without having to go into a Discord server. I want to gain confidence in my skills and convince myself I'm worthy before risking putting myself out there and being told by someone else that I suck and barely know where the WASD keys are.

[ZephyrMenodora]

For me anything requiring that I schedule set times with 7 to 23 other people and have to give an actual time commitment moves content out of mid-core into hardcore for me.

Having to guarantee my availability at specific times would be too much for me at this stage in life.

Same with content that would require outside communication systems like discord or voice chats.

[Supersnow845]

For me anything requiring that I schedule set times with 7 to 23 other people and have to give an actual time commitment moves content out of mid-core into hardcore for me.

Having to guarantee my availability at specific times would be too much for me at this stage in life.

Same with content that would require outside communication systems like discord or voice chats.

I think the problem here is in the environment 14 has cultivated over the years if your definition of midcore involves basically having no preplanning no communication and no outside discussion tools, just pugging in instance then really the only content devs can make that satisfy’s that is your difficult alliance raid bosses like Diablo

Even pugging easy extremes generally have FOMO and is server time dependant and a lot of people will still want to communicate

That’s a very limited window for what defines midcore (note I’m not saying you are wrong for having this opinion)

[ZephyrMenodora]

I think the problem here is in the environment 14 has cultivated over the years if your definition of midcore involves basically having no preplanning no communication and no outside discussion tools, just pugging in instance then really the only content devs can make that satisfy’s that is your difficult alliance raid bosses like Diablo

Even pugging easy extremes generally have FOMO and is server time dependant and a lot of people will still want to communicate

That’s a very limited window for what defines midcore (note I’m not saying you are wrong for having this opinion)

Just stating how I feel. I'm not saying people can't watch guides or anything to pre-plan/ prepare. I do that even for normals. But at the point where I have to schedule on my calendar a time I have to be available, it's no longer mid-core to me. It's hard-core to get to the point where the game has become such a priority you have to cancel plans or not make plans at certain times because you have to be online with your pre-made.

So yes I think there can be some pre-planning. The content can also require that you get a certain level of gear that isn't 40 ilvls behind current gear. Like needing 640 or 645 for current content. And you can communicate with tools in game, so I didn't say no communication.

I want to have the need for communication, organization and pre-planning just without having to make a set schedule for it, that's about it for me when it comes to that topic.

An example is taking dispel before fighting Ovni in Hydatos because it's required for at least one person to bring it so everybody doesn't die.

Sorry - out of posts. I think this is fair. I could compromise on communication tools - but for me the hard line is needing a static and scheduling my life around one.

People want no outside discussion tools required because then all control goes outside the window, you lose all protections that the TOS normally gives, since SE typically punts all out of game conflict to the players to handle.

Honestly this didn't even cross my mind. I was more concerned with having to coordinate personal accounts outside FFXIV that I'd rather not have to share with people for mid-core content. I'm not even personally adverse to parses - I personally like them. And I think mid-core content should be challenging enough that people need to perform at a certain level. But I know parses are against the TOS so I guess finding a way to guarantee performance just isn't possible unless that rule changed.

[Zairava]

Just stating how I feel. I'm not saying people can't watch guides or anything to pre-plan/ prepare. I do that even for normals. But at the point where I have to schedule on my calendar a time I have to be available, it's no longer mid-core to me. It's hard-core to get to the point where the game has become such a priority you have to cancel plans or not make plans at certain times because you have to be online with your pre-made.

So yes I think there can be some pre-planning. The content can also require that you get a certain level of gear that isn't 40 ilvls behind current gear. Like needing 640 or 645 for current content. And you can communicate with tools in game, so I didn't say no communication.

I want to have the need for communication, organization and pre-planning just without having to make a set schedule for it, that's about it for me when it comes to that topic.

An example is taking dispel before fighting Ovni in Hydatos because it's required for at least one person to bring it so everybody doesn't die.

[Supersnow845]

I want to have the need for communication, organization and pre-planning just without having to make a set schedule for it, that's about it for me when it comes to that topic.

An example is taking dispel before fighting Ovni in Hydatos because it's required for at least one person to bring it so everybody doesn't die.

Which is actually funny because you really don’t actually need dispel if you know what you are doing on ovni, bringing dispel just makes it impossible to die

But again I think you guys have a warped view oh what’s gonna happen on discord (note I’m not saying discord should be required except maybe for old content to keep it alive), 14 players are so conflict averse if you truly are underperforming on ACT they won’t call you out for it they will just leave or just quietly kick you, things they can already do now

[VerdeLuck]

I think the problem here is in the environment 14 has cultivated over the years if your definition of midcore involves basically having no preplanning no communication and no outside discussion tools, just pugging in instance then really the only content devs can make that satisfy’s that is your difficult alliance raid bosses like Diablo

Even pugging easy extremes generally have FOMO and is server time dependant and a lot of people will still want to communicate

That’s a very limited window for what defines midcore (note I’m not saying you are wrong for having this opinion)

People want no outside discussion tools required because then all control goes outside the window, you lose all protections that the TOS normally gives, since SE typically punts all out of game conflict to the players to handle.
If I join a discord server for voice and get screamed at because someone's ACT says I'm underperforming, I'm forced to just take it, there's nothing I can do. All the normal protections that would stop them from doing it are not applicable.
If the discord that owns the content decrees that I have to authenticate my main account with their bots and unhide my fflogs or I can't do the content, I just have to take that because if I call up a GM they're gonna tell me they don't handle anything that happens outside the servers or officials.

It doesn't need to be no communication but it shouldn't require anything outside of the parameters of what the game client provides. Savage is hardcore content and that is perfectly puggable with no voice chat and just the in game text chat and markers.

[PercibelTheren]

I think I would call myself a midcore player. I'm not completely casual but I'm also not ready to invest the time and energy required for hardcore content.

The one thing that really stands out to me regarding Endwalker fights is that the difficulty in Extreme and Savage seems WILDLY inconsistent. I have only dipped my toes in Savage but the fights feel like they're all over the place.

You have EX1 and EX2, both of them are very easy. But then you also have Barbariccia. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed that fight. Took our FC group of people with varying skill levels a two or three sessions to clear but it was fun. It was challenging but not insurmountable with some amount of effort. Still, Barbariccia and some of the other Extremes don't feel like they should be in the same difficulty bracket.

Savage is kind of the same, I think? P1S is very easy. It was a good "baby's first Savage" fight for me, though. P2S is probably the level of difficulty that I enjoy the most. Same as with Barbie, you can't do the fight half asleep, but it isn't particularly punishing and can be learned in a reasonable timeframe. After that, P3S follows. I don't like that fight. I ended up getting the clear recently and it was not a good time. There are people who enjoyed it, I'm sure, I just wasn't one of them. But again, P1S and P3S feel like they shouldn't both be in the "Savage" difficulty bracket.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is some small amount of midcore content in the game, but it's a pain to identify it. We most certainly can't rely on the fight difficulty labels.