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  1. #11
    Player
    OdinelStarrei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Ishgard
    Posts
    363
    Character
    Odinel Starrei
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Raikai View Post
    That much is very clear, at least. I find hard to believe that they would think of the 2min meta as such a "good concept to have creative job design upon", and just go with it because it makes their job much easier.

    I didn't do high end content in Stormblood (still lslowly getting into the game), but was the 'not-2min-meta' a jarring issue to the community or something that made many jobs not viable? If not, then we actually have a successful example of how it would be otherwise.
    I can extrapolate with my experience during the time. It's when I did tons of PF, and started really getting into job complexity.

    To say Stormblood was a "not 2 min-meta" is a bit reductive, because there certainly was a focus on the 2 minute, the 2 minute burst DID exist. However, Stormblood also had many, many jobs with deliberately misaligned cooldowns. We're talking 90s, 180s, and more instances of job specific 40s, 45s, 80s, 150s, and other just...odd timings that were job specific. What this meant is that every player had their own little world they were working in, sometimes, jobs would cross over during the burst window. I had the most experience with Dark Knight, which was actually a job with almost ZERO direct burst oGCDs, only a gauge depleter. What this meant is that if you were a party that had buffs centered in the "1 minute burst" such as NIN, or AST, DRK/SAM/MCH/WAR or really any offensive resource spending job would tune their resource generation mid rotation to put all their big damage spikes in there, provided it didn't screw up their OWN burst window. If you have a team that centered in the 90s burst, so MNK/DRG/RDM????, jobs would adjust their resource dumping into there instead. You see vestiges of this in "phased" ultimates today, where resources and cooldowns are held in reserve in the end of phasing once a DPS check has been passed. Think DSR P2 into P3, or P5 into P6. Not using all your resources, so you can open a phase with a massive burst of damage.

    So, in SB, you could have depending on your job, you might have something that looks like this.

    0 - Opener with potion, lacking resources, but that's ok if you gain a usage
    20-40s - Personal buffs/resource generation
    1m - micro burst/heavy burst depending on party comp
    1m 30s - micro burst/heavy burst depending on party comp/ALSO CRITICALLY A BACK UP BUFF WINDOW FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE DIED OR MISALIGNED
    2m - usually a heavy burst, with things like Chain Stratagem
    3m - 1 mins, 90s, and 3 mins meet up here again, good place to realign CDs
    4m - 1 mins / 2 mins hanging out again
    4m 30s - 90s hanging out again, potion is back up, but if the fight allows, IT CAN BE HELD
    5m - 1 mins hanging out again
    6m - THE BIG ONE, where everyone in the entire group can burst, with potion if allowed by killtime, if done properly, this is higher damage than the opener
    7m - start of the new loop, but if you can gain damage, 90s can hold their last usage to line with 2mins again in a last ditch effort to kill the boss, or potentially gain time in speedkills

    In Endwalker, once Trick Attack was moved off of the 1 minute, this entire, relatively forgiving system that was more about maintaining your own rotation gets devolved into a big conference meeting every two minutes. Your own "power moments" were removed or scaled back in effectiveness, and "the team's power moments" were GIGANTIC. Very low valleys, incredibly high peaks. And if you weren't there for the peaks, you are screwed, and you can't fix it.

    0 - Opener, pot.
    1m - personal buffs, if you even have them
    2m - Burst
    3m - personal buffs
    4m - Burst
    5m - personal buffs
    6m - Burst, with pot
    7m - personal buffs
    8m - Burst
    etc etc

    That being said, Stormblood did have problems. We still had a bad WHM experience, we still had things like slashing debuff that made jobs like NIN and WAR even more desirable, on launch we had a few serious issues that needed patches, but by 4.3 it was mostly figured out. Then in 5.0 all that work was thrown away, when all we needed was more focus on fixing system issues in SB, rather than throwing away the baby with the bathwater in ShB, getting a new baby, and then throwing away the new baby as well as the entire bathroom when EW rolled around.

    It's certainly easier to design EW compared to SB. But the combat, not the encounters, but the combat itself has suffered immensely, and I would almost say, has stagnated. Every single fight except for ultimates due to forced phasing plays nearly identical on a pure mechanical rotation execution standpoint because of this, and I ultimately think it makes for worse players because no one who is below ultimate can flex or tune their rotation depending on the situation or have an ability to demonstrate individual job rotation understanding and proficiency, since everything is shoved into 2 mins, and the rest of the rotation is dead space. I think it limits job growth.
    (14)
    Last edited by OdinelStarrei; 09-11-2023 at 05:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CelestaRosa View Post
    this is my opinion. don't have share my opinion. don't have like my opinion. but know nothing you say or do is gonna make me change my opinion. if don't like that tough.