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  1. #1
    Player FenyxRising's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2023
    Posts
    234
    Character
    Fenyx Rising
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90

    Gamespot interview with Mr. Ozma... Very disappointing

    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ho.../1100-6517559/

    It looks like they do not see any issue with the two minute meta and they think having giant bosses that give you uptime for free is the way to go. It's very disappointing to see them not at all recognizing how stale Savage and job design is.

    I have the impression that more players enjoyed resolving mechanics while attacking the boss, and I feel the same way when I play the raids myself, so a lot of bosses are designed for maintaining uptime nowadays.
    No thank you Mr. Ozma. You design bosses so that anyone can maintain uptime without even trying. What players want is for maximum uptime to be possible but require a lot of skill to pull off, like O8S, you know, back when uptime was actually something players fought to achieve, and required players to pull off difficult solutions to mechanics to get their uptime. Sadly... in today's Savage raids anyone can get 100% uptime by just breathing oxygen.
    (38)
    Last edited by FenyxRising; 09-09-2023 at 11:52 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,096
    Character
    Arlo Nine-tails
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by FenyxRising View Post

    It looks like they do not see any issue with the two minute meta
    About that in specific, he just mentions that the 2min meta is something they need to keep in mind when designing fights. It doesn't indicate whether or not they have plans with the 2min meta in the future.
    (6)

  3. #3
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,878
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    I wouldn't have picked O8S as an example of a 'challenging' uptime fight. Most of the modern simplifications to raid design have their origins in the Omega raid series, including self-positioning bosses. Players don't need to be able to achieve the 'theoretical maximum' uptime for a fight - if nobody can pull it off perfectly, you have a skill differential. They should just keep the boss targetable and see what players are capable of achieving.

    It would be nice to see more of the 'reaction-driven' mechanics that Nakagawa was discussing. P12S had some interesting mechanics, but it felt like they deliberately slowed the second part down a bit too much.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    Bonoki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    683
    Character
    Phoebe Iris
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    I can't really say I'm surprised that Dawntrail is looking to be a carbon copy of Endwalker. They said before that the job designs were essentially perfect in their opinion aside some tweaks. It only makes sense they felt the same way about the combat as well since they go hand and hand with each other.
    (13)
    99.99% chance probably a Titanman alt

  5. #5
    Player
    ZephyrMenodora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,245
    Character
    Zephyr Menodora
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonoki View Post
    I can't really say I'm surprised that Dawntrail is looking to be a carbon copy of Endwalker. They said before that the job designs were essentially perfect in their opinion aside some tweaks. It only makes sense they felt the same way about the combat as well since they go hand and hand with each other.
    Yes a few have said this. I think it’s time some admit at last that they just have subs for the hours and hours a day they get on the forums. Lol
    (4)

  6. 09-09-2023 02:54 PM

  7. #6
    Player
    vetch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    back on my free trial account
    Posts
    462
    Character
    Discount Hrothgar
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Botanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Raikai View Post
    About that in specific, he just mentions that the 2min meta is something they need to keep in mind when designing fights. It doesn't indicate whether or not they have plans with the 2min meta in the future.
    But if they were getting rid of it, would they need to keep it in mind?
    (1)
    he/him

  8. #7
    Player
    ElysiumDragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    272
    Character
    Mimilla Milla
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 92
    The 2 minute meta likely exists because it makes for much easier job balancing as a whole, as you have a fixed scenario you can test jobs inside of.
    (3)

  9. #8
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,021
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon View Post
    The 2 minute meta likely exists because it makes for much easier job balancing as a whole, as you have a fixed scenario you can test jobs inside of.
    It also exasperates issues and makes variance harder to balance against

    In the current two minute meta a crit during the burst window of a DPS 1300 potency skill (so enkindle or hyosho ranryu) completely covers a healer never touching their dot in the entire fight. This level of variance would also cover approx 9 broken combos or 2 completely missed stardiver potency oGCD’s

    When you can do a 75th per tier rotation and get a 90 because of crit luck in the burst window then something is wrong with the balance design
    (29)
    Last edited by Supersnow845; 09-09-2023 at 04:01 PM.

  10. #9
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,632
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    It also exasperates issues and makes variance harder to balance against.
    That... has very little to do with the particular timing of raid buffs (to per 2 minutes or otherwise) and almost everything to do with the likes of Communio and especially Hyosho Ranryu just having absurdly high effective potency for a single Crit/DHit roll.

    Our nukes are excessively dense. That's not a 2-minute meta issue though.

    When you can do a 75th per tier rotation and get a 90 because of crit luck in the burst window then something is wrong with the balance design
    This, likewise, has far more to do with there being little uptime optimizations and fewer contextual-rotational optimizations to be done in a given fight, not the 2-minute meta unless the difference in skill expression available between Stormblood and Endwalker were solely in how well one banked resources (most of which one couldn't bank anyways back in Stormblood) for minor/off-sync raid buffs (i.e., any raid buff which did not create or add to any of the highest density periods of effective damage amplification).

    It'd be a lot easier to solve issues like these... if we didn't conflate them to high hell.

    We lack for contextual skill expression, largely due to excessive fight simplifications. That's an independent issue from the "2-minute meta" though.

    In the current two minute meta a crit during the burst window of a DPS 1300 potency skill (so enkindle or hyosho ranryu) completely covers a healer never touching their dot in the entire fight. This level of variance would also cover approx 9 broken combos or 2 completely missed stardiver potency oGCD’s
    The maximally amped crit skill can cover that much potency, sure, but that's not the difference of the crit itself -- you're measuring the effective potency of the entire action there (and likely also failing to account for actual effective potency --as per damage traits-- of what you're comparing it against).

    Each Dia is worth 526.5 effective potency. The crit on a Hyosho Ranryu is worth some 676-1014 potency depending on one's Crit stat (+40 to +60% for those numbers). That crit covers less than 1 minute of healer DoT usage, not "the entire fight."

    That is still way too much, imo, but... it's nowhere close to what you're saying. "Upwards of 38.5 seconds" =/= "the entire fight".
    (8)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 09-09-2023 at 05:10 PM.

  11. #10
    Player
    ThaCa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    844
    Character
    Wise Fuchsia
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    If uptime is free, then why ranged tax still exists?
    (22)

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