Bring back deleveling in 2.0

**Sasse** · 07-02-2012 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by madolyn

i really "LOLed" at this comment cause i immediately thought everyone should be impressed.

<.<....>.>.........

It must be nice to live in a world where you can use your 24/7 gaming addiction as bold stamp of superiority.

(I know I shouldn't judge, but still...)

**Hyrist** · 07-02-2012 09:32 PM

Losing all buffs including food and most importantly, sanction, is enough of a penalty - not even counting continual repair costs. We don't need to exacerbate the problem.

This is a side attempt to get people to grind more, and in FFXI it only equated to a pointless and frustrating time sink.

More people from the grindmore camp trying to force people to play their way. Nothing to see here folks.

**Preypacer** · 07-02-2012 09:37 PM

I would personally be fine with xp loss as a penalty.

Personally, it was never a big deal to me in XI, and I really don't understand why people get so up in arms about it. I find gear damage/repair to be more annoying. At least when you die and lose xp, you get up start fighting and within 20 minutes or so (in my experience) have your lost xp back.

I also wonder how often some people died with how violently they act out against it. I consider myself to have been a pretty average FFXI player. I wasn't "leet", but I wasn't "gimp" either. I knew my jobs and made reasonable preparations for groups or group events. I didn't study wiki guides, or follow "FoTM" job guides to the letter. In over seven years of playing XI, from its US PC release, I died a number of times, and de-leveled a few of them. So what?

I would say for every time I died, I leveled up at least 10 times, probably more. To me it was part of playing the game. It was part of the experience. It wasn't some horrible penalty or huge, red, glowing F! being stamped on me for making a mistake. It was simply a way for the game to have some bite that affected my character enough that I would make a conscious effort to not die again. Death penalty was a means of encouraging smarter and more tactical play, not a penalty for failure. Seeing how carelessly so many people engage in content in MMOs with lesser penalties, including XIV, no one's going to tell me that having a harsher one doesn't make a difference.

Unless someone's dying so often that it's literally preventing them from progressing ever, which I highly doubt - unless they're doing something very wrong, repeatedly - dying and, hence, losing xp was not that big a deal.

I just feel people are exaggerating the situatin and blowing xp loss way out of proportion. It was not that big a deal, in my opinion. But then, "getting to level cap and doing end-game ASAP" was not my sole driving goal, as it seems to be with many people these days. My goal was to log in and do whatever was enjoyable to me for the time I had that session.

As for xp loss stopping people from exploring or taking risks. Nonsense. FFXI had xp loss and people took risks and explored all the time, myself included. Lineage 2 had an xp loss that made XI's seem like a slap on the wrist, and people still took risks and explored in that game. The difference is people in those games simply chose their challenges more carefully and had more respect for the danger they'd face. Consequently, emerging on the other side of such an event was much more gratifying, because the stakes were that much steeper.

Regardless, the argument that people won't take risks with xp loss is completely unfounded and completely unsupportable. The facts don't support it. Maybe the people making that claim wouldn't explore as much, but then they should speak for themselves not and presume to speak for "everyone".

**Arcell** · 07-02-2012 09:40 PM

Please, no de-leveling ever. It doesn't make people play smarter or better, it makes them play only as well enough as they have to to not die. Good players play well for the sake of not being terrible at the game, not out of fear of a death penalty. Players who know what they're doing should do so regardless of the consequences of death.

If anything loss of XP/levels creates an unfriendly environment. People are quick to blame or hate others who may or may not have slipped up if it resulted in a death. People hate losing things they've worked for and if they can blame another for it they will. This also makes people afraid to try anything that could potentially get them killed, like anything other than the optimal party setup. People already don't like wandering far from the optimal setups or taking risks as it stands.

I don't see any upsides to de-leveling other than a masochistic kick in the balls after failure. Why do we need to be punished further for dying? Shouldn't we try to not die simply for the sake of not dying?

**Randelmire** · 07-02-2012 10:34 PM

Deleveling simply does not fit in the game they are trying to create.

You would know this very well if you read the producer's letter.

**Nomski** · 07-02-2012 11:00 PM

A Million times no! EXP is easy to get, the gear damage is more a deterrence than de-leveling, the EXP gain in this game would have to go back to how it was at launch with fatigue for that to actually be such a burden on players. Yoshi has the game how it should be for dying, just because you die doesn't mean you should have to waste up to a few hours of your time grinding back your levels FFXI style.

Death = gil out of the economy/gives players another reason to level crafting. It's grand how it is.

**Maxwell** · 07-02-2012 11:20 PM

No to delevel.

**yoshikwalla** · 07-02-2012 11:22 PM

When it comes to death penalty, our opinion of this game doesn't matter as much as the opinions of the gaming community at large. The main goals this game has had since launch were to fix the game up and bring people back. The MMO community is very picky when it comes to death penalty. AION was universally trashed for its soul sickness system at launch because it slowed down progress... and that system was nothing compared to delevelling in Final Fantasy XIV.

The fact is that players want the time that they invest in a game to be well-invested. Delevelling is just a slap in the face these days to modern MMO gamers - especially those whose first MMO was Bobby Kotick's evil empire of doom, World of Warcraft.

For that reason alone it will not happen. Don't get your hopes up.

**Chardrizard** · 07-02-2012 11:24 PM

I want delevelling back so class stacking can take a whole new level lmao.

**Firesped** · 07-02-2012 11:37 PM

no, I've played 11 for longer then it was out in the US and it's annoying to die while trying to get exp to lose it. Even 11 has changed this now, you can't lose EXP below level 30 now I think. This game is also different. You have no EXP buffer once you cap level and everyone would be de-leveling every time you wiped. That would lead to even more of an elitist culture then now meaning that even a party finder would be useless. Also it would mean they would have to remove the gear damage penalty from the game if they were put it in to keep the death penalty from being too great. Which removes part of the economy that was developed for this game.

I guess you don't understand how the current death penalty system works in this game. When you die, your gear gets damaged. meaning you have to repair it. NPCs can repair it up to 99%. But if you wish to trade or sell the gear on the AH, you need it at 100%. So you need to have the skill to repair it yourself or get someone to do it for you. It doesn't totally break your gear in one shot when you die so you can keep trying.

so maybe if you want to have fear of dying, SE can add a Hard Core mode where your gear totally breaks every time you die, and can only be set from the Square Enix Account Management screen on the character. so you have to logout of the game to change it.

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