Evidence that Macros Do NOT Cause GCD Delay or Lost Casts

[Mikoko_Miko]

I found information on healing macros in an outdated but still informative guide.
Zyrk’s FFXIV Shadowbringers Healing Guide

Macros, however, are unable to use the skill queueing system. They will not begin executing the action until after the first time you press the key after your current action is finished. Even if you spam the key at inhuman speeds and issue the command the exact moment your current action is finished, you're still subject to latency delay while the game receives that command. This causes a small delay between actions whenever you're using macros, which can add up very quickly to a lot of lost time over the course of a fight. Ultimately, macros reduce your total output the more you use them, which should be avoided whenever possible.

I'm interested in network issue but no further sources could be traced. My experience in Oceanian DC may be insufficient because it is hardly affected by network or server congestion.

Some healers strongly prefer using targeting macros for single target GCD heals (Cure II, Regen, and equivalents), including some of the most talented and successful healers at the highest levels of play. The thing is, at those high levels of play, they can “get away with it,” you could say, because their healing is so optimized that they might cast a single digit number of those spells in an entire fight, so the total effect of that small delay is minimized to the point of being entirely negligible.

I suppose that the downside of macros are overestimated. But I felt relieved because the macros I use seem to be included in the exception even under such conditions.

[LilimoLimomo]

I found an interesting thread in GameFAQs.
Is Macroing oGCDs as a Healer a good idea?
It was posted in 2021. There are some opinions that evaluates combat macros in certain conditions. There is even an opinion that some macros lead to DPS gain. It is close to my opinion, but it was unexpected for me to find such an opinion in English.

I suppose that the downside of macros are overestimated. But I felt relieved because the macros I use seem to be included in the exception even under such conditions.

I have some thoughts on this thanks to the recent tests I did.*

In summary, I think a lot of players — myself included — have played too fast and loose with our science and our interpretations of the data. Even when we do commendable research in one area, we can slip up and make leaps of logic in other areas. And thus, we can end up making claims that aren't robustly supported by the data we have. We make assumptions without realizing we're making assumptions, and those unstated assumptions aren't always true, and thus impact our results. It's easy to overlook this.

If I had to guess, I think a lot of this happens because we don't like things to feel like they're up in the air or undecided; we want to close out the issue, to feel like it's finished, and that can subconsciously inspire us to be a bit hasty at times, whether we realize it or not.

I want to learn from these mistakes and to strive to be better, and I hope others will as well.

A macro is good to the extent that it helps its user. A macro is bad to the extent that it hinders its user. These two sides of the same coin should be self-explanatory, but our conversations about macros so rarely take both of these sides into account. If we look at the positives without acknowledging the negatives, we aren't being holistic. If we look at the negatives without acknowledging the positives, we aren't being holistic. The same goes with context. If we only think about FATEs and not Ultimates, then we aren't being holistic. If we only think about Ultimates and not FATEs, then we aren't being holistic. Players who are near from data centers, players who are far from data centers. Etc.

We can all do better — again, myself included — and one of the first steps towards that is going to be doing a better job of avoiding generalizations and instead taking this complexity into account.


*I'm waiting for a friend to peer review it before I post it, as I want to make sure that my interpretation of the data is sound before publishing it.

[Mikoko_Miko]

I found an interesting thread in GameFAQs.
Is Macroing oGCDs as a Healer a good idea?
It was posted in 2021. There are some opinions that evaluates combat macros in certain conditions. There is even an opinion that some macros lead to DPS gain. It is close to my opinion, but it was unexpected for me to find such an opinion in English. There is also an example of Sprint macro with repeating line method.

[AmiableApkallu]

Doing a fight in a game is easy.

My friend on Hydaelyn… Remember that comment of mine where I called the title of this thread clickbait?

The moment you mention concepts like "do not cause GCD delay" and "lost casts," you've put yourself in the world of people who clear Savage raids when they're current — who clear them Week 1, even — and people who clear Ultimates. And that's because those claims I've put in quotes don't matter in Duty Finder content; that content is so "easy" that they don't matter, that you can instead focus on not giving yourself carpel tunnel or whatever.

So if you want to claim that "doing a fight in a game is easy," well, claiming Savages are Ultimates are "easy" puts you in rarefied company, and still further rarefied company if we consider only those folks for whom that content is actually easy. And at that point, a shady person in a dark alley should be able to corroborate everything, if you get my drift.

[LilimoLimomo]

My friend on Hydaelyn… Remember that comment of mine where I called the title of this thread clickbait?

The moment you mention concepts like "do not cause GCD delay" and "lost casts," you've put yourself in the world of people who clear Savage raids when they're current — who clear them Week 1, even — and people who clear Ultimates. And that's because those claims I've put in quotes don't matter in Duty Finder content; that content is so "easy" that they don't matter, that you can instead focus on not giving yourself carpel tunnel or whatever.

So if you want to claim that "doing a fight in a game is easy," well, claiming Savages are Ultimates are "easy" puts you in rarefied company, and still further rarefied company if we consider only those folks for whom that content is actually easy. And at that point, a shady person in a dark alley should be able to corroborate everything, if you get my drift.

You're misunderstanding me. I replied with those words in a specific context, and I'm in no way saying doing all fights are easy. The person I was replying to didn't request an Ultimate. They asked for "a fight". And the vast majority of players when asked to perform the non-specific task of "complete a fight", will be able to do so.

[Themarvin]

You're misunderstanding me. I replied with those words in a specific context, and I'm in no way saying doing all fights are easy. The person I was replying to didn't request an Ultimate. They asked for "a fight". And the vast majority of players when asked to perform the non-specific task of "complete a fight", will be able to do so.

You are litterally punishing the team be it normal, hard, ex, savage, Ultimate content by using macros on everything, it is so noticeable when you are in it all and someone is not not doing the damage costing time and more for the team.

[Venks]

I have some ideas for this macro.

/hotbar copy PLD 1 GLA 1

You may not need to run this line every time. It is required only after updating hotbar, so it can be removed.

When I used hotbar copying macros, there were corner cases that overwriting by the last line didn't work for some reasons; executing another macro, being wiped out, transferring to another area, etc. I recommend creating a backup macro and place it on another hotbar. For example macros for restarting combo from 2 or 3 can be used for this purpose. These can be placed in hard-to-access slots since they are rarely used.

Thank you for the advice! I will edit my macro and add a backup like you've suggested!

And thanks for even going so far as to share a video of you doing the new raids! On your channel with 1.21k subscribers, no less! (congrats on that achievement, I can't imagine finding so many people who are interested in something I do!)

I only started using macros thanks to this thread, I really appreciate all of the attention you've brought to FFXIV macros and what they can and can't be used for. It's opened my eyes to new possibilities.

[LilimoLimomo]

You know, I deleted my previous posts because reading this forum is like having a small child pinch you over and over, but the moment you correct them, they scream to their parents about the mean old man.

The reason you deleted your posts was because they provided transparent evidence that since your first post in this thread, you have been acting in bad faith. You argued at length against evidence despite never having looked at it, you have continually dismissed reasonable criticism of your ideas, and you didn't want others to see that so you hid your tracks as best you could.

[Collin_Sky]

you have been acting in bad faith

Bro are you serious right now
You pick and choose what to respond to in each post
You refuse to provide any further evidence when requested
You dismiss criticism any made
You make up your own excuses of what other people see in order to justify your correctness

You are the one arguing in bad faith.

[LilimoLimomo]

Bro are you serious right now.
You pick and choose what to respond to in each post

Like everyone else in these posts, I don't reply to every word or even every sentence. But I do my best to reply to the overall ideas that a person is talking about, and I do my best not to omit important details.

But I'm far from perfect, so it's entirely possible that I might have thought something that you feel is important was simply an aspect of another point I responded to. So if you think there are important details that I didn't respond to, simply bring those details to my attention and I'll reply to them.

You refuse to provide any further evidence when requested
You dismiss criticism any made

This entire thread is full of evidence to the contrary. When people bring up salient criticisms, I engage with those. Numerous times throughout this thread people have brought genuine issues to my attention, and in response I have made adjustments to the thread and even done further tests. Your post is literally on the same page as one such example; just scroll up ever so slightly.

You make up your own excuses of what other people see in order to justify your correctness

You're clearly just talking about the time that you were sure you were seeing clipping when what you were actually seeing was caster tax, even though the in-game timer and math based on frame data provided solid evidence that you were wrong.

You are the one arguing in bad faith.

I encourage everyone to go back and read every post Collin has made in this thread, in order.
(Be sure to double-check whether they were edited after they were replied to.)