Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[Hyperia]

I agree that they are chasing too hard after new players at the expense of the veterans.

But here is the thing, the veterans help the new players AND if they are disenfranchised enough, the bad vibes will rub off on the new players and they may quit.

I have this horrible feeling that the 14 / 16 dev issues cost us all of the veteran content. I am praying that all of the tech work spent on 16 will be brought over to 14. We will see, but with more DLCs for 16, I don’t think those devs will be back until 8.0.

Hopefully we will still be around when they come back… hopefully…

8.0 ETA - January 2027

[Supersnow845]

Maybe like what I've experienced: being accused 'mentally ill' for having all of that, just like how I was accused being one for clearing 255+ DRNs on patch to clear all ShB relics at that stage.

GCBTW.

I mean I have all of that but that’s because I adore eureka

You have to have an unhealthy level of dedication to eureka to achieve all of that, invoking it as a purity test is worse than stupid

[Nebelheim]

Maybe like what I've experienced: being accused 'mentally ill' for having all of that, just like how I was accused being one for clearing 255+ DRNs on patch to clear all ShB relics at that stage.

GCBTW.

I find it weird people during shadowbringers called people crazy for enjoying grinds like what you described doing then suddenly when people complain about endwalkers lack of content people bring up "have you grinding all this various things". But when people grinded for things hardcore during shadowbringers in the content they enjoyed they were seen as mentally ill.

[Ivtrix]

Are we really at the point of arguing “if you don’t have every physeos relic, every set of +2 elemental armour, Cassie, the speed belt, the OH the 7 magecite, copycat, conditional, great/regular zentuksuken, Sam barding, shiver, ellvann, petral and eld you can’t complain about the current state of the content

The level of cope is off the charts, what will the arguments be in June next year when we will have been going almost 18 months like this

these peoples lodestones are always exactly how youd expect them to be too

[Supersnow845]

I find it weird people during shadowbringers called people crazy for enjoying grinds like what you described doing then suddenly when people complain about endwalkers lack of content people bring up "have you grinding all this various things". But when people grinded for things hardcore during shadowbringers in the content they enjoyed thy were seen as mentally ill.

In 5.58 or so I was grinding for 10/10/10 in Zadnor, the number of casual levellers who were telling me I was an idiot for going for 10/10/10 because it was useless outside of Bozja was insane

Why can’t I grind for grinding sake, I love the feeling of auxiliary power that field content gives you if you grind for it and yet it doesn’t negatively affect people who don’t want to grind for it, its like a win win win and people still complain; what do they even want

[CNitsah]

I find it weird people during shadowbringers called people crazy for enjoying grinds like what you described doing then suddenly when people complain about endwalkers lack of content people bring up "have you grinding all this various things". But when people grinded for things hardcore during shadowbringers in the content they enjoyed thy were seen as mentally ill.

Because it's not about the grind. It's about having long term objectives to keep you invested. Some of the relics steps in the ShB relic were godawful, and I prefer the current system to those steps. But as the whole, it was more engaging, and got more things to get invested into with better incentives. Over a new version itération of Bozja Zadnor with fixed problems, I woudl take that, but better the old version that the absence of anything we got.

[Zairava]

In 5.58 or so I was grinding for 10/10/10 in Zadnor, the number of casual levellers who were telling me I was an idiot for going for 10/10/10 because it was useless outside of Bozja was insane

Why can’t I grind for grinding sake, I love the feeling of auxiliary power that field content gives you if you grind for it and yet it doesn’t negatively affect people who don’t want to grind for it, its like a win win win and people still complain; what do they even want

I adored my time in Eureka and grinded Bozja near endlessly on-patch. If we at least had an equivalent in endwalker I probably wouldn't be hear complaining about no content in Endwalker with lasting power, because those fill the void and not a meager 1,500 tome exchange.

[Ivtrix]

Comparing an MMO crafting grind to “bash[ing] your head against a brick wall,” is a totally normal thing to do!

you will when you see how big the reqs are for that flying dinosaur mount lol

[Jojoya]

I said that there is so much content in the backlog a NEW player can't catch up, which is exactly what causes all of those "is it worth it to play FFXIV in 20XX" posts you see all around. Joining an existing MMO where there's no hope of catching up on content and grinds feels bad, having to choose between current content and doing old content feels bad. I still haven't done eureka because it's a time sink that progresses nothing on the endwalker side while you're in there.

Whether or not a new player can catch up depends on:

How much time they have available to play
What content they feel they must catch up on

Outside of the MSQ, content is optional. There is no need to "catch up". There is only the desire to experience the content and maybe get a certain reward. There is no penalty if you choose not to do the content.

The key is the time available to play. Those with more hours to play can experience more of the older side content than those with fewer hours to play. MMORPGS used to push to find ways to keep those with more time to play occupied. In turn it cost them the players with less time to play who felt like they had to be logged in 40+ hours a week just to stay current with no time left to do the other things they wanted to do.

Now developers are pulling back and adding in fewer (if any) meaningful grinds because they don't want the players with fewer hours to play feeling left out. That's leaving those with more hours to play with less to do. They could go play other games being created by other developers to fill that additional time but as we can see in these forums, that's not a satisfactory answer for those players.

It creates a no win situation for developers. One side is going to be left unhappy if they design around the other side. Trying to design around both sides is effectively designing for the more time side unless the grindy content has negligible rewards, but then the negligible rewards won't be sufficient to keep the more time players engaged with the content. Too many players expect their Skinner box to be full of new treats all the time.

Take into consideration that game studios and publishers are businesses out to make a profit (or at the very least make enough to pay their employees and cover other expenses), it shouldn't be difficult to understand why they've chosen to move design toward the players with less time. It's easier to keep those players happy than the players with more time who keep demanding more.

I'm not trying to argue good/bad or right/wrong here. It's the reality of gaming in the corporate business environment.

It's why gamers need to be better consumers. If players want the industry to change, then they need to stop putting their money in places where it goes against their personal interests in gaming. Make certain you're getting enjoyment out of your time and money spent, not frustration.

[Lauront]

Because it's not about the grind. It's about having long term objectives to keep you invested. Some of the relics steps in the ShB relic were godawful, and I prefer the current system to those steps. But as the whole, it was more engaging, and got more things to get invested into with better incentives. Over a new version itération of Bozja Zadnor with fixed problems, I woudl take that, but better the old version that the absence of anything we got.

The issue is more to do with how that poster they're responding to (Boblawblah) is framing it. As if you can't complain about lack of content if you haven't farmed every relic permutation for every job. While at the same time people with this mentality then mock completionists. It's a sign that they're not really here to argue in good faith.