Garlean attacks aren't magic, so what are they?

[Cassar]

I know that in our first encounter with Zenos he was capable of doing moves such as Concentrativity, which certainly looks like magic to me, but he also had access to Thunderous Force, Tempestuous Force, etc. You're saying he used crystals for those? I still think he must've had some sort of magic power, possibly from the supposed body-enhanced procedures I meant in my previous post or, as Lilimo suggested, maybe it was Emet's doing.

Elidibus can use magic regardless of the body he's in, just the same as Emet-Selch. Remember that before Endwalker, Emet-Selch is always in a Garlean body, and that doesn't stop him from being the world's most powerful mage.

Oh yeah, I know about Elidibus being able to use magic regardless. What I meant is that our fight against Zenos in 4.5 was similar to our first encounter with him, which led me to believe that the magic Hien was referring to was the same that we witnessed in the first encounter.

I'll read Zenos' short story again to see if there's anything I missed.

[Absimiliard]

Elidibus can use magic regardless of the body he's in, just the same as Emet-Selch. Remember that before Endwalker, Emet-Selch is always in a Garlean body, and that doesn't stop him from being the world's most powerful mage. I don't remember if Zenos ever actually uses magic, but he's not able to use magic before he "dies"; so if he does use magic after that, my assumption would be that it's something he picks up one he becomes "an Ascian in everything but name".

Mastery of Resonance gave Zenos access to some very Ascian-like abilities which were almost 100% definitely a sort of magic. He never demonstrates "conventional" magic, like say casting spells, but he also wasn't trained as a mage. His applications of aether were always far more direct. Many of these abilities did not make a return in Endwalker for unknown reasons.

I know that in our first encounter with Zenos he was capable of doing moves such as Concentrativity, which certainly looks like magic to me, but he also had access to Thunderous Force, Tempestuous Force, etc. You're saying he used crystals for those? I still think he must've had some sort of magic power, possibly from the supposed body-enhanced procedures I meant in my previous post or, as Lilimo suggested, maybe it was Emet's doing.

Not crystals. Those swords were themselves enchanted, and he most likely used Garlean technology to further augment their capabilities/his techniques.

Oh yeah, I know about Elidibus being able to use magic regardless. What I meant is that our fight against Zenos in 4.5 was similar to our first encounter with him, which led me to believe that the magic Hien was referring to was the same that we witnessed in the first encounter.

Hien states, and I quote,
"Magic? With a Garlean body? That's hardly fair..."

This is said in response to Elidibus doing something blatantly magical without calling upon the unique properties of Zenos's arsenal. He emits a shockwave that immediately defeats those assembled to face him. Prior to that he'd been utilizing other blatantly magical skills, also without utilizing the weapons' enchantments. He started out using Zenos's skills, but after a while he was forced to start mixing in magic.

https://youtu.be/_yvCSDrAWCw?t=189

Here's a YouTube video for reference. You can see here Hien reacts rather vocally upon first seeing Elidibus start pulling out the stops. While he did involve one of the swords here, that was not one of Zenos's techniques. It's also distinctly different from the enchantment we know to be on that particular weapon. You can see other, more blatant examples of outright magic both during the fight and in the following cutscene.

[thegreatonemal]

Mastery of Resonance gave Zenos access to some very Ascian-like abilities which were almost 100% definitely a sort of magic. He never demonstrates "conventional" magic, like say casting spells, but he also wasn't trained as a mage. His applications of aether were always far more direct. Many of these abilities did not make a return in Endwalker for unknown reasons.



Not crystals. Those swords were themselves enchanted, and he most likely used Garlean technology to further augment their capabilities/his techniques.



Hien states, and I quote,
"Magic? With a Garlean body? That's hardly fair..."

This is said in response to Elidibus doing something blatantly magical without calling upon the unique properties of Zenos's arsenal. He emits a shockwave that immediately defeats those assembled to face him. Prior to that he'd been utilizing other blatantly magical skills, also without utilizing the weapons' enchantments. He started out using Zenos's skills, but after a while he was forced to start mixing in magic.

https://youtu.be/_yvCSDrAWCw?t=189

Here's a YouTube video for reference. You can see here Hien reacts rather vocally upon first seeing Elidibus start pulling out the stops. While he did involve one of the swords here, that was not one of Zenos's techniques. It's also distinctly different from the enchantment we know to be on that particular weapon. You can see other, more blatant examples of outright magic both during the fight and in the following cutscene.

The resonance gives one the ability to manipulate aether if they could not do so already. Zenos says this himself after Fordola under goes the procedure. I'm gonna paraphrase here "What you have been given is far more than simply wielding magicks." The lore for the second boss in the lvl 68 is that he underwent a prototype of the resonance and it was successful in granting that garlean the ability to cast magic. It also broke his mind and drove him insane. Zenos can just cast magic. He just doesn't most of the time for all we know

[Absimiliard]

The resonance gives one the ability to manipulate aether if they could not do so already. Zenos says this himself after Fordola under goes the procedure. I'm gonna paraphrase here "What you have been given is far more than simply wielding magicks." The lore for the second boss in the lvl 68 is that he underwent a prototype of the resonance and it was successful in granting that garlean the ability to cast magic. It also broke his mind and drove him insane. Zenos can just cast magic. He just doesn't most of the time for all we know

I believe you are misunderstanding. What I said was he never demonstrates "conventional" magic like casting spells, not that he can't use any form of magic. Everything we see HIM do is a far more direct application of aether. Conventional spellcasting is a learned skill. We are never to my knowledge shown Zenos casting spells, but we are shown him using blatant magic. There is a difference.

[thegreatonemal]

I believe you are misunderstanding. What I said was he never demonstrates "conventional" magic like casting spells, not that he can't use any form of magic. Everything we see HIM do is a far more direct application of aether. Conventional spellcasting is a learned skill. We are never to my knowledge shown Zenos casting spells, but we are shown him using blatant magic. There is a difference.

In the final fight he casts Shinryu's abilities. That's an example of spell casting. Were you looking for something like it showing him learning to cast a spell. He probably just taught himself.