2 tanks and 4 dps can beat P9?

[Ianmaru]

Because we're not talking about a dungeon. We're talking about a raid.

We're not talking about missing party members. We're talking about straight up replacing a role in content because said content barely has anything for said role to do that the remaining 2 can't do without them.

Bosses in EW dungeons can be done without a tank yes. Raid bosses? Unless you want SGE and SCH to fully commit to using their GCDs constantly to attempt to keep a DPS alive (probably a DRG/RPR because after Fending Gear Maiming has the most mitigations correct?) you probably can't do them without a tank. There are mechanics in place for a tank's requirement. There are no mechanics in place for a healer's requirement.

Now I would bring up the double standard of SE fixing it so when Titan Egi was a thing it could no longer tank. But I wasn't around then, and I don't know first hand if it was possible or not.

So I'll just say this: I don't think its good quality for a holy trinity game (one that promotes tank/healer/dps) to make content casual or no that does not have mechanics for part of the trinity to shine in. Even more so when it is a raid - a piece of content where players are able to group up and accomplish a task.

And I'll also say that is very disheartening to hear that "no, healing requirements are so pitifully low your favorite role to play (healer) is not needed in X content".

Also Hardcore content has NOT shown how every role is important. As said hardcore content was cleared without 2 healers, without a single healer, and some of them on release.

Oh I was talking about casual content in general, regardless raid or dungeon. Well I wanted to stick with the topic of raid, but I never really have a firsthand experience where the tank is missing the whole fight, and I only have the experience in boss dungeon thus I mentioned that one. Honestly I really would like to see how a party of 6 without tanks clear a casual raid. If the 6 ppl are competent enough to carry the missing tank weights, I think it should be doable. might make the healers raise a lot & throw GCD heals a lot though, but should still be doable.

Regarding the holy trinity, I personally think that roles are not very important. The casual content would do just fine without having the holy trinity of tank-dps-healer. but it is helpful for the very casual player who don't really know how to play the game well, since having the normal party composition does make the content easier. For most hardcore contents, the roles matters a lot more though.

Talking about some of the hardcore contents that can be cleared without healers, well maybe those ones need some balancing fix. the game is not perfect, but I think the way 2 tanks & 4 DPS manage to clear a casual raid provided those 6 are skilled enough, is nothing to be concerned about.

[ASkellington]

Regarding the holy trinity, I personally think that roles are not very important. The casual content would do just fine without having the holy trinity of tank-dps-healer. but it is helpful for the very casual player who don't really know how to play the game well, since having the normal party composition does make the content easier. For most hardcore contents, the roles matters a lot more though.

We have a game like that. Its called ESO. Healers are also not needed in content and are just more of a buffer for new/bad/inexperienced players.

ESO is not a Holy Trinity game. FFXIV however is.

Raids while having become casual content, arguably shouldn't be. They are supposed to have mechanics for each of the three roles. Not having them in a raid is a red flag.

[Ianmaru]

Raids while having become casual content, arguably shouldn't be. They are supposed to have mechanics for each of the three roles. Not having them in a raid is a red flag.

hmm I think first we need to separate between casual content and hardcore content. They literally make two different fight for each raids, one for casual (normal raid), one for hardcore (savage raid)
In savage raid we get all those 'mechanic for each of the three roles'. In normal raid we dont get them because it's catered toward the less skilled players, where each of the trinity roles don't matter that much.
If you like playing a raid where it has mechanics for each roles then stick to savage raids I guess? and avoid normal raid?