Idea Bag: How to get players to unlock older content (eg Raids)

[Fyrebrand]

Maybe I'm just not understanding, but this whole topic is so weird to me. You don't want to unlock raids, but you want the devs to invent an incentive to make you feel pressured to unlock them?

Do you not enjoy raids outside of Crystal Tower? Why are you asking for a reason to have to play them then?

[Limecat]

Do you not enjoy raids outside of Crystal Tower? Why are you asking for a reason to have to play them then?

Well that's just it. This is a thread from the perspective of the opposite camp, that's sick to death of CT popping and wants to have an equal distribution of all raids. I have no preference myself because I never do raid roulette.

[hynaku]

I don't think I have unlocked any of Endwalkers raids. I only unlock raids that want glamour from. Unless they give a very good incentive, I will never unlock them. Reason not much of a raiding person.

[kaynide]

Maybe I'm just not understanding, but this whole topic is so weird to me. You don't want to unlock raids, but you want the devs to invent an incentive to make you feel pressured to unlock them?

Do you not enjoy raids outside of Crystal Tower? Why are you asking for a reason to have to play them then?

So, there are a few very different but entirely legitimate camps regarding the alliance raid scene.

An non-comprehensive list would include:

1. Veteran players who want the different raids to pop somewhat more regularly
2. Players frustrated by the queue times for specific later raids (eg Nier or Ivalice), and are unhappy at the very long wait times; specifically first timers or people hunting specific glamour
3. Players who have alt characters with no interest in doing the old raids again, and can actually benefit by not doing them on their second-third-fourth character. (That’s me!)
4. Players with a huge list of things they can do, and may or may not choose to unlock older raids for whatever reason (don’t care about glamours, want to do other quests)
5. Players who straight up get flustered/confused/lost when trying to unlock it and just give up and move on to something else…maaaybe coming back to alliance raids later.

Players from 3, 4, 5 will only ever get the CT raids when they do roulette. And with the content available it could be literal years before they ever DO unlock them.

This is about finding a middle ground, so that new players want to do the raids sooner, or people like me finding value in unlocking the older raids, or helping those frustrated by seeing more variety in roulettes or shorter queues.

The goal, however impossible it probably is, is to find a solution where everyone wins.

[VerdeLuck]

Well that's just it. This is a thread from the perspective of the opposite camp, that's sick to death of CT popping and wants to have an equal distribution of all raids. I have no preference myself because I never do raid roulette.

They're already fixing that with the ilvl cheese removal next patch. There's not really anything else that can be done to convince people to unlock it that isn't already there. Ivalice in particular gates a huge amount of side content so there's no reason to not do those.

[Saidosha]

I don't think some realize the whole "Play my way or else!" is exactly why MMOs have been stagnating and the forcing of dungeon/raids is at the core of that mentality. Just come clean and admit you want bodies for the content you like, not that you actually care if they enjoy it, too.

See, things like raids have always sounded neat on paper. Gather a bunch of players and tackle some kind of big bad is a reasonable game play fantasy to have. Yet, when introduced to the reality of game mechanics, how they've developed over time, and the behaviors of people, that's where problems arise. On one hand, you've got the style of raids that are just a big dungeon, but people are expected to wipe on each boss for weeks at a time while they acquire previous boss' gear. The XIV model is a bit more generous where it's just the bosses, and typically not gear demanding, but the grind is still there to get the most out of the content. If it's not PUGable, it becomes a matter of herding cats, and with that matching up roles, personalities, schedules, and suitable skill levels for the tasks at hand. For those with erratic schedules or prone to RL interference, raiding can most certainly be "Not for them" and I honestly can't rule out those with social anxieties (particularly once voice chat demands enter the equation) or other handicaps. Are you someone who prefers being DPS? You'll probably have a harder time finding a static in general, too. No amount of "Then make your own!" as snarky advice guarantees success, either.

So, what do you think will happen if all these "Not for them" people have raids forced on them for no other reason than select others being selfish? It won't be pretty. People will quit. People will complain. People will complain about the complaining. You'll probably see nerfs come too late in desperation to stop the population bleed. Folks who lost their friends will wind up losing interest, themselves, spiraling into greater population decline. It's basically why I argued my last post the whole, "More, more, more!" mentality is not what's going to the save the game or the genre at large. It doesn't matter how easy you individually think the content is. People that don't want to be there aren't going to bring their A game. At best, you'll get a brief surge of variety as first clears are done then the Alliance Roulette just becomes something those folks never touch. That might even be the case with ilvl cheese fixes now. Trying to bribe people back with unique things is just a recipe for resentment.

Overall, most raid plots have been pretty standalone and mediocre at best. Forcing Ivalice to get to Bozja reeks more of SE looking at that raid's metrics and seeing most people didn't want anything to do with it more so than it being important to the relic weapon plot. I know I didn't enjoy my time there, both between having a mediocre PC at the time and multiple failboat groups in Orbonne that couldn't even get to Cid. Yes, it was that bad of a time and I wouldn't wish it on anyone just trying to get it done. Frankly, I'm more apt to propose ilvl cap increases to make things feel more like CT, but I know exactly the response that'll get from the raiding community even if it would technically up engagement. Still, old content is old. Everything has a shelf life. I can understand the variety argument, but not so much an enforcement of suffering.

[Jojoya]

The goal, however impossible it probably is, is to find a solution where everyone wins.

Not impossible at all. It should be fairly obvious considering we already have a roulette that sets the precedent.

Move CT into its own roulette. Players will get one of 3 options in it just as they get one of 3 options with MSQ roulette.

No one loses with this solution. Most players would come out ahead since they would have one more roulette to do for XP and/or tomestone bonuses.

Don't like CT? Don't do CT roulette. Only like CT? Only do CT roulette. Like Alliance raids in general? Do both roulettes. Hate Alliance raids in general? Don't do either roulette.

There's no unnecessary gimmicks trying to force players to do content they aren't interested in doing.

As for how to make new players aware of the Alliance raids, move the quest givers to the Aetherytes in their respective cities (or to Eulmore in the case of Nier). If the quest givers are in a place the player will pass through regularly instead of in a random location, they're more likely to pay attention to the quest.

SE could also make better use of the Recommendations list that almost everyone ignores because all it ever lists is roulettes and PvP once you finish 2.0. Recommendations should promote the major side content the player hasn't unlocked but is eligible to do instead of listing what the player has unlocked and presumably is already aware they can do.

They're already fixing that with the ilvl cheese removal next patch. There's not really anything else that can be done to convince people to unlock it that isn't already there. Ivalice in particular gates a huge amount of side content so there's no reason to not do those.

Not being interested in the content is reason enough not to do it.

Someone doing Ivalice to unlock that other content doesn't mean they're going to help keep Alliance roulette filled with players capable of doing Alliance raids other than CT. They may choose not to do Alliance roulette at all.

[kaynide]

@jojoya:

Honestly, I think SE should at least try this. Make a thing of it, say they’re gonna try it out and if people are running both roulettes, they’ll keep the system. Make a 2 month thing of it- 2 alliance raids/day is easy xp!

I think they might balk a little if it resulted in less people doing one or the other series on roulette though. Or if it resulted in nobody doing the CT series if the rewards were lower.


I dunno, I think having seasonal metas to try out features before making them permanent is a good idea. This could certainly be a thing to try.