which weapon?

[Hyrist]

It'll be a while before I can get the melds finished. Exploding Meteria and all that.

In the meanwhile we can discuss build theories as far as getting the best out of Heart.

Evenflow is an interesting alternative to strenght for glove, something I'll probably want to test later as well. However I wonder if you're undervaluing Piety because you may be undervaluing the damage on your Auto-Attacks.

In all of my parses, Auto Attack is without a doubt the strongest single source of my parses, and it's effected heavily by my Piety, as well is a small percentage of my Weaponskill damage. Your build suggests minimising this source in favor of maximizing WS frequency and damage.

Looking at my critical frequency distrobution (Which attacks crit the most often.) I can see some concept of wanting to WS more frequently.

You would contest that Piety is a waste against Critical Attack in the body slot. However that's actually not where your build conflicts with other players. The contest is Piety against Store TP, by my accounting of it.

An Alternative build were to be to forego the Store TP gloves and retain the STR on Your gloves, and instead of focusing Critical Attack on your body piece, do so on your weapon instead. This would increase your Critical damage without the sacrifice of a portion of your WS damage nor the modifier on your largest single source of damage.

My basis on this is the relative jump in damage I received when moving from my AF Body to a Piety body. The AF body's additional TP gain from Invigorate is about the same amount you would get from a double meld Store TP (maybe even triple?), on top of additional stats gathered.

We could make this correlation in testing if you wish as it would save me making multiple double-melds to test it out. Not that I mind blowing up meterial, weapons, and armor left and right. (Exciting!) But for the sake of timeliness it might just be better for me to craft a Double Meld Savage Heart +1 and test AF body against Piety body once again.

[AmyNeudaiz]

It'll be a while before I can get the melds finished. Exploding Meteria and all that.

In the meanwhile we can discuss build theories as far as getting the best out of Heart.

Evenflow is an interesting alternative to strenght for glove, something I'll probably want to test later as well. However I wonder if you're undervaluing Piety because you may be undervaluing the damage on your Auto-Attacks.

In all of my parses, Auto Attack is without a doubt the strongest single source of my parses, and it's effected heavily by my Piety, as well is a small percentage of my Weaponskill damage. Your build suggests minimising this source in favor of maximizing WS frequency and damage.

Looking at my critical frequency distrobution (Which attacks crit the most often.) I can see some concept of wanting to WS more frequently.

You would contest that Piety is a waste against Critical Attack in the body slot. However that's actually not where your build conflicts with other players. The contest is Piety against Store TP, by my accounting of it.

An Alternative build were to be to forego the Store TP gloves and retain the STR on Your gloves, and instead of focusing Critical Attack on your body piece, do so on your weapon instead. This would increase your Critical damage without the sacrifice of a portion of your WS damage nor the modifier on your largest single source of damage.

My basis on this is the relative jump in damage I received when moving from my AF Body to a Piety body. The AF body's additional TP gain from Invigorate is about the same amount you would get from a double meld Store TP (maybe even triple?), on top of additional stats gathered.

We could make this correlation in testing if you wish as it would save me making multiple double-melds to test it out. Not that I mind blowing up meterial, weapons, and armor left and right. (Exciting!) But for the sake of timeliness it might just be better for me to craft a Double Meld Savage Heart +1 and test AF body against Piety body once again.

Although I do have a parse and wouldn't mind doing some of this testing, I'm in a bit of a break from some very unfortunate luck in game that's left me more that frustrated with the game at the moment.
But any insight you'd be willing to put in regards to testing WS frequency apposed to steady capped auto attack damage DPS wise would be a worthwhile read and I look forward to it if so you choose to do testing.

[HoolieWho]

Looking at my critical frequency distrobution (Which attacks crit the most often.) I can see some concept of wanting to WS more frequently.

Have you looked at the effects of Critical Attack Power and Critical Rate in your parses? I've seen Kaeko's crit testing, but I believe the game has changed since then in regard to how crits work. Biggest issue for me right now is judging Crit gear versus STR/PIE/Atk.

I suppose the simplest test is how Crit Rate+ gear enhances crit rate. I've never seen numbers for this. Would be great to know.

[AmyNeudaiz]

Have you looked at the effects of Critical Attack Power and Critical Rate in your parses? I've seen Kaeko's crit testing, but I believe the game has changed since then in regard to how crits work. Biggest issue for me right now is judging Crit gear versus STR/PIE/Atk.

I suppose the simplest test is how Crit Rate+ gear enhances crit rate. I've never seen numbers for this. Would be great to know.

From what I understand it works the same way as the militia wrists. +1 rate = 1% added to your current % so if you have a 10% chance of a critical hit you'd and you added +10 crit rate you'd end up with 11% chance of a critical hit.
But this is from observing how other rate increase stats work and just an assumption based off of that.

[Hyrist]

From what I understand it works the same way as the militia wrists. +1 rate = 1% added to your current % so if you have a 10% chance of a critical hit you'd and you added +10 crit rate you'd end up with 11% chance of a critical hit.
But this is from observing how other rate increase stats work and just an assumption based off of that.

It's actually more difficult to determine than that, because of Dragoon's Critical Chance bonuses Chaos Thrust chain.

In my last parse on moogles, I averaged an 11% Critical hit rate. However, in Melee, I averaged only 5%. This is with two explorer pieces (Boots and Necklace) for a total of 50. If your theory was correct, then my native crit rate would have been near zero on these guys.

That said, my Voral thrust is a 40% Critical rate, which makes me wonder if the bonus on gear is stacked with the Combo multiplyer in any meaningful way. We can observe this next time as well.

Moreover, I do believe level correction is in play here. I could go out and do some level 52 Leves to test crit rate when level correction is nearer to 0 to see the full effects of crit rate on level curve like the old graphs. Just... don't expect me to actually MAKE the graph. >.>

Of course there is also an issue of Blindside. Put bluntly, we can force crits, and get crit bonuses. I wear the Explorer's boots mainly outside major runs when level correction is in my favor. That, and as it's a matter of feet, there's not much in competition in that slot if I'm not concerned with emnity or accuracy until Darklight, which is outside my means.

My concern about level correction, however, will mainly be on Critical Attack meteria, more than critical hit chance. Between critical bonus and Blindside, we can pretty much force crits where we want them anyways.

[AmyNeudaiz]

It's actually more difficult to determine than that, because of Dragoon's Critical Chance bonuses Chaos Thrust chain.

In my last parse on moogles, I averaged an 11% Critical hit rate. However, in Melee, I averaged only 5%. This is with two explorer pieces (Boots and Necklace) for a total of 50. If your theory was correct, then my native crit rate would have been near zero on these guys.

That said, my Voral thrust is a 40% Critical rate, which makes me wonder if the bonus on gear is stacked with the Combo multiplyer in any meaningful way. We can observe this next time as well.

Moreover, I do believe level correction is in play here. I could go out and do some level 52 Leves to test crit rate when level correction is nearer to 0 to see the full effects of crit rate on level curve like the old graphs. Just... don't expect me to actually MAKE the graph. >.>

Of course there is also an issue of Blindside. Put bluntly, we can force crits, and get crit bonuses. I wear the Explorer's boots mainly outside major runs when level correction is in my favor. That, and as it's a matter of feet, there's not much in competition in that slot if I'm not concerned with emnity or accuracy until Darklight, which is outside my means.

My concern about level correction, however, will mainly be on Critical Attack meteria, more than critical hit chance. Between critical bonus and Blindside, we can pretty much force crits where we want them anyways.

I was talking about base critical hit chance, but skills that have critical rate modifiers may or may not be different. Also, blindside would be excluded from this since it does not relate to gear that adds to critical rating.
Although I'm starting to think we should make another thread for this, we've gotten completely off topic now.

[Meatdawg]

From what I understand it works the same way as the militia wrists. +1 rate = 1% added to your current % so if you have a 10% chance of a critical hit you'd and you added +10 crit rate you'd end up with 11% chance of a critical hit.
But this is from observing how other rate increase stats work and just an assumption based off of that.

Hmm, i think your assumptions are off..

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...-how-they-work.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...=1#post5226674

"Results:
For R52 mobs +72 crit rate gear resulted in an 11.6% increase in real critical hit rate.

Approximately +.16% per crit stat point, or

+1% increase in real crit hit rate per 6-7 crit stat"

Once you get your relic, the weapon debate is over. As far as stats go, it is always more beneficial to cap your main/minor (350/310) then stack atk. Where the fun begins is when we try to figure out how to work in crit rate gear and stack Crit Atk Potency. I think that is when you will see the biggest gains in atk.

Is it worth it to sacrifice piety for crit atk power? It is all relative to what your other stats are and what you are min/maxing to get the most out of them.

I would advise anyone to just run some controlled test and mix in different gear sets till you find out what suits your play style the best.

[Hyrist]

I would advise anyone to just run some controlled test and mix in different gear sets till you find out what suits your play style the best.

I do believe that we are publicly doing such and sharing our results, specifically concerning Hart +1 as neither of us are wielding a weapon above that grade.

Given the stats on updated BG are correct, I'm getting ~+8% Critical hit rate increase on level 52 Targets with just 2 pieces of Explorer's. This would prove that crit rate is level corrected as this raw value is larger than the rate I had in my last Moogle Fight parse.

Also I am interested in the valuing of the Critical Attack stat and how it's adjusted by level correction as well.

It will be some time before I can make these melds. Monday - Wednesday is typically a wash for any progress due to me working two jobs, and both on those days. (leaves me with all of 2 hours of free time when I get home to wash, eat, and relax before going to bed, not enough for effective FFXIV time.) So it will have to be in the later parts of the week when I can sit down for more than an hour.

[AmyNeudaiz]

Hmm, i think your assumptions are off..

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...-how-they-work.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...=1#post5226674

"Results:
For R52 mobs +72 crit rate gear resulted in an 11.6% increase in real critical hit rate.

Approximately +.16% per crit stat point, or

+1% increase in real crit hit rate per 6-7 crit stat"

That's good to finally know exactly how crit rates work for sure. Thanks!

specifically concerning Hart +1 as neither of us are wielding a weapon above that grade.

I have a Mog Fork and I'm pretty sure that's better xD