I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Honestly, I do kind of want to see the dev team grant the wishes of the ones asking for an increase to healing requirements. I want to see them ramp it up so high that it kills off most of the healer playerbase.

Even with the extreme simplification we have now, there are people who still struggle. I bet even if they make healers only have 3 buttons [Throw Rock, Heal and Heal More], some people will still wipe the party because they hit Heal instead of Heal More. The dev team really needs to start designing the healer role for actual human beings and not bots.

We don’t even need to look too far back: Abyssos. Yes, it has more mit checks alongside but they’re clearly asking for more compared to the preceding Asphodelos.

Result? People stop healing for PF cause they don’t want to be blamed cause that one SAM who can’t be bothered to press their Feint, or that WAR thinking Bloodwhetting was enough to cover Proto Carbie chomps, or they simply buckle down to the jump in difficulty because Asphodelos has ‘softened’ their expectations. On the other side of the spectrum, better healers simply wanes away because they’re being recruited or finds their own fixed group, continuing to diminish the PF supply of their pug healers.

[Supersnow845]

I'm pretty sure the healer shortages were because of the fights being more of a mitigation check than a healing check. If someone dies to Dominion, it's usually a caster, and it's usually the melee not using Feint. Same with Stomp Dead in P1. I know a lot of healers were sick of being blamed for not healing when they already put up everything they could and the melee missed Feint so someone dies with barely 100 overkill.

This is 100% it

The amount of times the healer would cop the blame for the BLM drifting their rotation and just deciding that addle didn’t need to be pressed was 8’s (and the wider abyssos) problem for healers

If you are going to force healers to rely on the DPS pressing their mitigation buttons don’t be surprised if the healers get sick of it

[Sani2341]

Over 50 pages of "I want more complex rotations, but I'm not going to ever discuss what I mean by that or provide an example so... just give me more complex rotations!"

Well that's just this thread. And even here i've seen people refer to some of the countless threads in the healer subforum where seemingly everyone still giving a damn about making healers engaging already posted one, or more, threads about their vision for a healer rework.
But a couple of years ago most of us switched fr calling for we would think is best to just asking for anything better than what we have now.

[Supersnow845]

I think at this point all of us who are constantly on here have actually given up hope anything will change and now just vent

Ask me, ask sebazzy, ask aravell, ask Reiner, ask Forsaken, ask Ty, we’ve all given enough points on our opinions for current design, problems and future direction to make LOTR blush and none of it goes anywhere

At this point we are tired and are just at the point of venting

[Sebazy]

Over 50 pages of "I want more complex rotations, but I'm not going to ever discuss what I mean by that or provide an example so... just give me more complex rotations!

And the correct response is over 50 words of completely disingenuous pet food?

A whole wealth of suggestions and ideas have been posted in the healer forums over the years.

They've all been completely ignored.

Think for a second why every one of us isn't posting a detailed break down as to our preferences in every single post.

You can manage that right?

(Ps, my preference is 'I don't care', just give me a core gameplay loop that's not smashing 1 button endlessly for the vast majority of the length of a encounter and I'm happy).

[Eisi]

This is 100% it

The amount of times the healer would cop the blame for the BLM drifting their rotation and just deciding that addle didn’t need to be pressed was 8’s (and the wider abyssos) problem for healers

If you are going to force healers to rely on the DPS pressing their mitigation buttons don’t be surprised if the healers get sick of it

What about PvP? Healers are very popular there and other jobs have to take a lot of responsibility for their own survival.

I think if we drastically reduced healer's access to healing abilities in PvE, with every heal being on a cooldown and simply not having the tools to account for other's failure past a point while at the same time expanding on mitigation and healing on the part of the DPS we might be able to foster a culture where everybody sees it as their responsibility to ensure their own and the parties' survival.

Remember, this game has actually managed to make it normal for healers to DPS most of the time. You can make it normal for DPS to mitigate. Just don't allow for much blame to fall upon healers anymore. At the same time increase their DPS and give them more interesting Damage buttons.

It already happened in PvP and nobody but the staunchest defender of the most antiquated of trinity models has anything but praise to offer for it.

[Supersnow845]

What about PvP? Healers are very popular there and other jobs have to take a lot of responsibility for their own survival.

I think if we drastically reduced healer's access to healing abilities in PvE, with every heal being on a cooldown and simply not having the tools to account for other's failure past a point while at the same time expanding on mitigation and healing on the part of the DPS we might be able to foster a culture where everybody sees it as their responsibility to ensure their own and the parties' survival.

Remember, this game has actually managed to make it normal for healers to DPS most of the time. You can make it normal for DPS to mitigate. Just don't allow for much blame to fall upon healers anymore. At the same time increase their DPS and give them more interesting Damage buttons.

It already happened in PvP and nobody but the staunchest defender of the most antiquated of trinity models has anything but praise to offer for it.

At that point you functionally don’t even have a holy trinity anymore, you have 3 colours of DPS, PVP isn’t remotely comparable because every class has to have some means of supporting themself when they are alone or when they are cornered

You could probably force a change in habits if you took mitigation away from the tanks and healers and forced enough of it onto the DPS that it became “press this or die” (though they would probably still play chicken with each other to actually press it) but does anyone actually want that design

[Eisi]

At that point you functionally don’t even have a holy trinity anymore, you have 3 colours of DPS, PVP isn’t remotely comparable because every class has to have some means of supporting themself when they are alone or when they are cornered

This is wrong. In the olden times before patch 6.1 PvP exactly followed this holy trinity model with the healers being almost solely responsible for the parties' survival. Healer difference was the overwhelmingly dominant cause of one team's failure and another's success.

The changes that 6.1 made effectively led to exactly what you say: You functionally have no holy trinity anymore in PvP. Instead jobs are designed with the job fantasy in mind, they are no longer hermetically sealed off from certain domains. Roles serve as suggestions rather than strict guidelines. And to be honest with you PvP is all the better for it. Job design is so much better than in PvE, it's not even close.

Had Square Enix held onto antiquated notions of the trinity, we would have never had this change. Sometimes you have to eat that holy cow and it turns out it's delicious. Actually massive W on SE's part, they are often extremely conservative about their design, so to be that courageous in PvP deserves nothing but praise imo. I mean it was a success at the end of the day, but one only possible when thinking outside of traditional notions such as the upholding of an ultra-strict and inflexible holy trinity - which they already really failed at in PvE considering 80% of what healers do is press DPS buttons.

You could probably force a change in habits if you took mitigation away from the tanks and healers and forced enough of it onto the DPS that it became “press this or die” (though they would probably still play chicken with each other to actually press it) but does anyone actually want that design

As an avid Feint/Mantra/Riddle of Earth/Bloodbath/Second Wind presser yeah I would be on board with that. Sometimes I even chug a Hyper-Potion. Then again I main Monk which has relatively few buttons to press and is actually well designed.

This is effectively what I'm asking for, just cripple healer's abilities and give them more DPS buttons instead to balance it out. In fact get rid of spammable heals. Force DPS to take responsibility for the parties' survival as an added challenge.

[Aravell]

What do you mean by complex rotations?

If you bothered to look through any of the other threads, you'd see the gist of what people are asking for.

Bring back SB SCH and AST and base SGE gameplay upon its PvP incarnation. WHM is a bit more complicated as there's very wide dispute on that job, but the other 3 are easy.

[Mithron]

I think at this point all of us who are constantly on here have actually given up hope anything will change and now just vent

Ask me, ask sebazzy, ask aravell, ask Reiner, ask Forsaken, ask Ty, we’ve all given enough points on our opinions for current design, problems and future direction to make LOTR blush and none of it goes anywhere

At this point we are tired and are just at the point of venting

It's still the morally correct thing to do; to continue venting, asking, posting, and being an overall annoyance to the devs and/or community (the ones that are wrong in the community, of course) until it happens, even if it doesn't ever happen.