I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[AmiableApkallu]

I see what you're saying, and if this were a single-player game, I'd agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, it's an MMO where plenty of players feel entitled to expect other players to not just do good enough, but to excel (or at least be trying to excel). Which is to say, if you aren't using all of your DPS buttons, you can expect a certain kind of player to get on your case. As a designer, you can largely mitigate this kind of conflict by providing options to players that align with their play preferences; because if you only have one DPS button, nobody can reasonably to criticize you for not using two DPS buttons.

In 27+ months of playing FFXIV, that is literally something that's never happened to me, and something that I've never had to worry about.

I've run content with my FC-mates, several of whom are obviously on-content Savage raiders. (It's obvious from the gear and mounts they're sporting, even if they don't say anything.) Not once have I heard them remark on anyone's DPS, let alone the healers'. For the healers -- It's always, "Here's a good time to use Temperance." Or, "Here's a good time for Lilybell/Panhaima." Or when a few members of the party are tanking the floor, "F everyone else, just keep yourself alive for 10 seconds, and then LB3."

Every reasonable player I've ever encountered pushes the healers in the party to keep themselves alive and then to keep party alive. Healer DPS is the lowest priority.

In the end, it is true that FFXIV players expect healers to excel... at actually healing and keeping the party alive. If they can do DPS, that's an added bonus.

[vetch]

In 27+ months of playing FFXIV, that is literally something that's never happened to me, and something that I've never had to worry about.

I've run content with my FC-mates, several of whom are obviously on-content Savage raiders. (It's obvious from the gear and mounts they're sporting, even if they don't say anything.) Not once have I heard them remark on anyone's DPS, let alone the healers'. For the healers -- It's always, "Here's a good time to use Temperance." Or, "Here's a good time for Lilybell/Panhaima." Or when a few members of the party are tanking the floor, "F everyone else, just keep yourself alive for 10 seconds, and then LB3."

Every reasonable player I've ever encountered pushes the healers in the party to keep themselves alive and then to keep party alive. Healer DPS is the lowest priority.

In the end, it is true that FFXIV players expect healers to excel... at actually healing and keeping the party alive. If they can do DPS, that's an added bonus.

I was lectured by a party member about doing 0 healer DPS while leveling my very first healer in Brayflox Longstop a month or two after starting the game. If we're contributing personal anecdotes.

[IDontPetLalas]

I was lectured by a party member about doing 0 healer DPS while leveling my very first healer in Brayflox Longstop a month or two after starting the game. If we're contributing personal anecdotes.

OK, so don't keep us in suspense. That's only part of the story, first of all , who gave you the lecture, and what happened after that?

[vetch]

OK, so don't keep us in suspense. That's only part of the story, first of all , who gave you the lecture, and what happened after that?

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Nobody else said anything. I snarked at the person a bit and then we finished the dungeon.

If by chance you're supposing they earned a black mark on their account for violating the TOS, well, they didn't get one from me and neither of the other party members seemed to care.

[IDontPetLalas]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Nobody else said anything. I snarked at the person a bit and then we finished the dungeon.

If by chance you're supposing they earned a black mark on their account for violating the TOS, well, they didn't get one from me and neither of the other party members seemed to care.

It was a simple question as you didn't provide any information on: the way the remark was phrased (e.g. was it helpful, was it abrupt), whether anyone else said anything, whether you said anything, whether you found it helpful (or not), whether you modified anything (or not).

Up to you on how much you wanted to provide, however without at least some of the above (and not being there) it's rather difficult to understand the circumstances, nor was I speculating regarding any violation of the TOS. I wasn't doubting that it happened, before anyone raises that question.

[vetch]

It was a simple question as you didn't provide any information on: the way the remark was phrased (e.g. was it helpful, was it abrupt), whether anyone else said anything, whether you said anything, whether you found it helpful (or not), whether you modified anything (or not).

Up to you on how much you wanted to provide, however without at least some of the above (and not being there) it's rather difficult to understand the circumstances, nor was I speculating regarding any violation of the TOS. I wasn't doubting that it happened, before anyone raises that question.

Ah.

It was quite abrupt. I didn't consider it helpful at the time but in hindsight they were correct; I was anticipating a lot more incoming damage than was actually happening and didn't need to conserve MP nearly as much as I was.

My point in bringing it up was that there are absolutely people commenting on healer DPS performance and not just whether they're keeping the party alive, so I wasn't thinking of the things you're asking for as relevant. Sorry.

[LilimoLimomo]

In 27+ months of playing FFXIV, that is literally something that's never happened to me, and something that I've never had to worry about.

I'm genuinely happy to hear that's the case; sadly, it's not the case for everyone. While some of my friends are top tier, some of my friends are just barely "good enough" to do baseline content. And some of these players have literally stopping queuing for content without a pre-made or a Trust because the number of times they've been criticized or talked down to has left the enduring impression that in any group with randoms there's a non-trivial chance that someone will single them out. And that sucks a whole lot.

It's a problem that the game has, one that the devs themselves recognized in 2021 when they revised the form factor of the game's list of Prohibited Activities (which caused quite a stir as players worried they weren't even allowed to offer suggestions anymore).

Sadly, as we well know, the ToS alone doesn't prevent harmful behavior, it can only mitigate and sometimes punish it. That's why it's also beneficial to use game design itself as a means to provide solutions to problems such as these. By giving players a diverse array of options to select from, each player can find one that better suits their personal needs and playstyle.

[IDontPetLalas]

I'm genuinely happy to hear that's the case; sadly, it's not the case for everyone. While some of my friends are top tier, some of my friends are just barely "good enough" to do baseline content. And some of these players have literally stopping queuing for content without a pre-made or a Trust because the number of times they've been criticized or talked down to has left the enduring impression that in any group with randoms there's a non-trivial chance that someone will single them out. And that sucks a whole lot.

It's a problem that the game has, one that the devs themselves recognized in 2021 when they revised the form factor of the game's list of Prohibited Activities (which caused quite a stir as players worried they weren't even allowed to offer suggestions anymore).

Sadly, as we well know, the ToS alone doesn't prevent harmful behavior, it can only mitigate and sometimes punish it. That's why it's also beneficial to use game design itself as a means to provide solutions to problems such as these. By giving players a diverse array of options to select from, each player can find one that better suits their personal needs and playstyle.

While game design is going to strive to provide the optimal user experience, game design in and of itself is not the solution to player conflict. Aside from varying skill levels (which game design can compensate for to some degree), there will always be a range of emotional maturities, players that have varying social backgrounds, moral codes, etc. That is why every game has a TOS. I would dispute that in FFXIV there is a "non-trivial" chance of encountering TOS violations, however if your definition of "non-trivial" is zero there I would agree with you. However, I would also say that zero is a non-realistic expectation. Whether violations are followed up appropriately - that's a whole other discussion.

[vetch]

While game design is going to strive to provide the optimal user experience, game design in and of itself is not the solution to player conflict. Aside from varying skill levels (which game design can compensate for to some degree), there will always be a range of emotional maturities, players that have varying social backgrounds, moral codes, etc. That is why every game has a TOS. I would dispute that in FFXIV there is a "non-trivial" chance of encountering TOS violations, however if your definition of "non-trivial" is zero there I would agree with you. However, I would also say that zero is a non-realistic expectation. Whether violations are followed up appropriately - that's a whole other discussion.

Indeed, trying to use game design to remove toxicity frequently results in chopping off the skill ceiling and aspects of party inter-reliance which, far from making the game more suitable for everyone, also results in alienating part of the community. And not just the part who're mean to new players about not mastering their kits but rather everyone who wants jobs with more depth than a puddle.

[LilimoLimomo]

While game design is going to strive to provide the optimal user experience, game design in and of itself is not the solution to player conflict.

Oh it's certainly not the tool, because as you've said, zero is never a realistic expectation. But game design does sculpt player behavior, and thus it's a valuable tool in a designer's arsenal to mitigate conflict and promote harmony.

I would dispute that in FFXIV there is a "non-trivial" chance of encountering TOS violations

It sounds like you're implying that in your experience you haven't seen much of this behavior, and I believe you when you say that. I'm sure each player's experience varies.

I'd also hazard that players like us that are good at the game are much less likely to witness such behavior, as we have to simultaneously end up in a group with both a "callout" player and a "barely good enough" player to see this; if only one of those is present, we won't see it.
ie: Probability of Experiencing Callout = Likelihood of Grouping with "Callout" Player x Likelihood of Grouping with "Barely Good Enough" Player

However, when you are a "barely good enough" player, there's always a "barely good enough" player in your group, and that means all it takes is:
ie: Probability of Experiencing Callout = Likelihood of Grouping with "Callout" Player