I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Kacho_Nacho]

*snippity snip*

After all, if you're worried about keeping a healer "simple" or "accessible", what you need to worry about is the healing kit, not the DPS kit:

Exactly! Healers really don't want a complex damage kit. Dealing damage is not their primary function. Their role's focus should be upon the team, whether it be the team's survival or performance, with dealing damage to the enemy an important but secondary concern.

Hence, the healer toolkit should reflect that concept. Instead, they have redundant spells, with many important abilities which they should have, handed over to the other roles. This has weakened the healer's part in the triad, making healers less important to the success of a party.

Many experienced players feel this diminishment of their favorite role and have expressed frustration about their lessened impact on the party's success. Furthermore, because the other roles require less support, healers have to spend the majority of time using their limited damage spell selection. This has caused even more frustration.

[LilimoLimomo]

Why not all of the healers?

After all, if you're worried about keeping a healer "simple" or "accessible", what you need to worry about is the healing kit, not the DPS kit:

I don't know why you'd think that; a kit is the sum of its parts, and more DPS complexity means more complexity for the overall kit. And that's not something everyone wants. That being the case, it seems like it would make the most sense to only apply this adjustment to a single job; that way players who prefer a simpler DPS style for their healers still have access to that.

[IDontPetLalas]

I don't know why you'd think that; a kit is the sum of its parts, and more DPS complexity means more complexity for the overall kit. And that's not something everyone wants. That being the case, it seems like it would make the most sense to only apply this adjustment to a single job; that way players who prefer a simpler DPS style for their healers still have access to that.

Again there is a reference to the *complexity* boogeyman. Really, we are looking at a single dot and a nuke, I have honestly never played a healer in any game that has such a stripped-down DPS kit, even in heal spec. This game already employs multiple design options for DPS that don't introduce button bloat, don't break combos, allow a player to hold a skill. It isn't rocket science.

If we add an additional DPS option, (or more, just saying), I don't see why it would not be for all healers. Part of the reasoning is that in the content where it doesn't matter, no one can force i.e. harass) a healer to use their DPS skills, however a competent healer in that content currently has limited options.

So currently healers that don't want to DPS do not ( I have personally seen zero DPS healers and no one said a word), nothing would likely change. However for those who do want to and want to learn some habits for more difficult content- or have engagement- this could improve their experience.

I'm not even addressing the frustration of players in higher end content, I don't expect that they would like to not even have the option available for them either.

[AmiableApkallu]

I don't know why you'd think that; a kit is the sum of its parts, and more DPS complexity means more complexity for the overall kit. And that's not something everyone wants. That being the case, it seems like it would make the most sense to only apply this adjustment to a single job; that way players who prefer a simpler DPS style for their healers still have access to that.

Then you missed the point of the bit from ForsakenRoe that I quoted.

You can always carve out a simple DPS style from any kit. Indeed, even Black Mage, the hallowed "complex" caster, illustrates the point: "The standard rotation is more than sufficient to play at a high level of Black Mage." You want to play BLM but don't want to deal with transpose lines zaniness for a theoretical few percent more damage? Then don't. Focus on doing the basics well.

I fail to see how that same philosophy and approach can't be applied to healers. Allowing room for complexity takes nothing away from those who prefer something non-complex.

[LilimoLimomo]

Then you missed the point of the bit from ForsakenRoe that I quoted.

You can always carve out a simple DPS style from any kit. Indeed, even Black Mage, the hallowed "complex" caster, illustrates the point: "The standard rotation is more than sufficient to play at a high level of Black Mage." You want to play BLM but don't want to deal with transpose lines zaniness for a theoretical few percent more damage? Then don't. Focus on doing the basics well.

I fail to see how that same philosophy and approach can't be applied to healers. Allowing room for complexity takes nothing away from those who prefer something non-complex.

I see what you're saying, and if this were a single-player game, I'd agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, it's an MMO where plenty of players feel entitled to expect other players to not just do good enough, but to excel (or at least be trying to excel). Which is to say, if you aren't using all of your DPS buttons, you can expect a certain kind of player to get on your case. As a designer, you can largely mitigate this kind of conflict by providing options to players that align with their play preferences; because if you only have one DPS button, nobody can reasonably to criticize you for not using two DPS buttons.

[Szylver]

they need to combine or reduce the healing spells, that way we have less buttons for healing and more room to add 1 or 2 dps buttons.

[ChonkGoblinSuprem]

lmao “spit in the face”

What the hell is wrong with you?

[WaxSw]

2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1

THIS is the main problem of healers, yes, the healing kit could be far more interesting and less generic, yes, the content could require more healing but even with that you can't reward the mastery of the the healing with a 2 button spam, especially when even if the new content required healing the remaining of the game does not require that amount of healing.

People say they want more healing but the reality is that the majority of those who ask for it (and the playerbase) woudn't be able to handle the healing required to justify those tools, because not even savage justify the tools we have now, and most healers can't handle it. Thats why the solution lies in the dps kit, because its the easier one to execute and the one that most players would be able to handle.

[Kacho_Nacho]

2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1

THIS is the main problem of healers, yes, the healing kit could be far more interesting and less generic, yes, the content could require more healing but even with that you can't reward the mastery of the the healing with a 2 button spam, especially when even if the new content required healing the remaining of the game does not require that amount of healing.

If you are using healing spell, you're not hitting a damage button. So, there is no spamming going on. If there was something else you could cast which would help the party's performance, you wouldn't be hitting a damage button, So, again, no spamming is going on. The only time spamming 2111 etc... would happen is when you had nothing to do except deal damage. So, the big issue isn't the damage kit, it's the healing kit and the content.

People say they want more healing but the reality is that the majority of those who ask for it (and the playerbase) wouldn't be able to handle the healing required to justify those tools, because not even savage justify the tools we have now, and most healers can't handle it. That's why the solution lies in the dps kit, because it's the easier one to execute and the one that most players would be able to handle.

I disbelieve this. I feel most people drawn to being a healer would rise to the challenge.

Sure, there will be some who won't; but, it'll be silly to make healers into primarily damage dealers with a side of healing abilities. Healers shouldn't be like Blue Mages.

Players who want to be healers know what they are getting into. It's just like players who want to be tanks know what their role entails and damage dealers know what their role is. It's not like a healer is going to be surprised that they have to heal in a duty.

[Maltothoris]

I disbelieve this. I feel most people drawn to being a healer would rise to the challenge.

You said this but we got stuff like this. Have to edit since it exceeds the 1000 limit.

Q2: For this Savage, there seems to be a serious lack of healer participation going on. My question here to you is: Are you aware of the reason and is there something you will reflect on, and if any are there plans to address this issue (that is within the means and intention of the dev team), and if there is, may I know the plan to address the issue?

YoshiP: (Super long paused followed by a long "hmmm") Things to reflect on......things to reflect on? Well for one I did read something written on Matome (Summary) sites, something about "Green river"※......Hmmmm? (another long pause) ...n...nothing much I can say about that... But we also experience situations where there is a serious lack of tank participation and this seems to depend on the timing and situation...(another long pause) If I have to make a comment about it, I think the reason would be because it's a high difficulty content, and there are other factors which contributed to this issue....well, this is hard to answer...I mean there's also the request we got from players that asks us to create more situations that require healers to heal, and among other things that is asked of us...(another long pause) So in this case, due to certain circumstances and certain "wall" which caused deviations (biases?) to occur, and this is definitely a thing after operating this game for a long while, but as for the state of healers right now, I think it's just an extremely......I mean this simply is due to the healer population in general as well as the population of raiders participating in this tier...but if I have to say anything on this matter what I am able to say at this point is "please give healers a try", and that's what I want to convey, since this is a game where you are allowed to handle multiple roles, and when you try playing a completely different role you'll definitely find something interesting through that experience....hmmm...well we will need to observe the situation a little more...yeah.

※ - A meme referring to "Healer slots being so open and available in PF due to so little healers willing to join recruitment". There's also a DPS equivalent of such meme, called "Red River", where the excessive amount of DPS slots open for Ranged role (PFs usually are full of melees and casters, but not so much on ranged, which created the perception of ranged being undesirable). The "Red River" meme usually applies to PFs with practice parties as their objective.i

and then the follow up question

Q7: This is a question regarding the fourth floor of Savage (P8S), the Savage content, which includes the DPS check required, is definitely a challenging content, the healing check for the second half of this battle was really tight and compared to Dragonsong Reprise (DSR), I feel that there are certain parts in the second half of the battle contains healing check that is required which is comparable to what Ultimate would require, personally I welcome the increase in healing intensity but it causes the parties to be lack of healers when it comes to PF recruitment (be it progging or weekly clears) so I wonder what is your thoughts and opinion on the matter?

YoshiP: Ok I mean this happened before, but if I give an answer to one question, it won't work on the other one (for some reason). Right, we are told that (healers) are free, which is why healers tend to focus on firepower instead, and we should give healers more situations where they need to heal, and we increased the healing work required... I mean for the entire expansion and we did it but as expected this happens....so what are we supposed to do now hahaha...oh god if any I should be the one trying to discuss with you guys here. Aaaaaaahhh I mean yeah I knew this will definitely happen (long sigh). I mean I thought we've achieved quite a good balance here....(long ponder), Well yeah I mean if I have to start decreasing the difficulty and I'll get comments saying it's too lax (laughs). Well I will need data...either way we did indeed increase the intensity for sure, although this was the balance that was asked of us......I mean this is personal disparity, yeah, there are healers who are completely fine with this tuning, and there are other healers who would go "this is too hard I can't do this".

Yeah I apologize but please allow us to continue ponder on this matter and find out what is best and this is what we can do for now.