I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Colt47]

I think the most common reasoning of why SB was "bad" is that there was a static meta comp for the entire expansion. Although that doesn't mean that balance was bad, all jobs were able to clear content after all.

Honestly, I didn't actually see any PF lock out any jobs aside from the log run PFs who lock in DRG/NIN/BRD.

Stormblood's sins were more around the story and Zenos not being a particularly compelling villain. Content wise the expansion was fine outside of what you mentioned and possibly heaven on high being a bit of a hit or miss thing. There were more people back then who needed deep dungeons as an alternative for leveling alts.

This expansion it was the heavy push on savage and ultimate content with the new mits matters design. For people who were already doing ultimates and savage before Shadowbringers the content was probably fine, but the crowd of people that got into savage during Shadowbringers and didn't really have the time to do ultimate, and have lower coordination than the main crowd, it was pretty crushing as there really wasn't much they can do outside of it. Variant dungeons are over very fast, the new deep dungeon only works for levels 81-90 and a lot of people already had the jobs they wanted leveled, cross server travel plus mobile like gameplay of island sanctuary limited that content, so all that was left was heavy grind content like mount farming or pvp.

The relic also doesn't make use of older content to keep it fresh and is primarily using the mid tier tomestone, which outside of hunts comes mostly from the roulette. This also made upgrading crafted gear using the "rain" items cumbersome as the same resource being used for the upgraded crafting gear is getting used for the relic.

[Nobuyuki_Sanada]

If you want a more complex dps rotation then go play dps, literally know your role. If the argument was you want more support/healing responsibilities then I think you would find more support

[IDontPetLalas]

If you want a more complex dps rotation then go play dps, literally know your role. If the argument was you want more support/healing responsibilities then I think you would find more support

Question number (1) I'm genuinely curious, did you happen to read any part of this discussion, or did you just read the thread title- which is misleading- before adding your comment regarding "complex dps rotation"?

Question number (2) why or where do you feel that you need more support/ healing responsibilities, and can you provide examples?

[Nobuyuki_Sanada]

Question number (1) I'm genuinely curious, did you happen to read any part of this discussion, or did you just read the thread title- which is misleading- before adding your comment regarding "complex dps rotation"?

Question number (2) why or where do you feel that you need more support/ healing responsibilities, and can you provide examples?

1. I read the OP and responded, did I read all 80 pages, nope. I left my feedback for the discussion topic, if I wanted to address any specific comment I would quote it as I done here
2. Because the role is Healer, if I wanted to do damage I would play dps, I'm not playing a different role to have the same experience as another. I'm not saying I currently need more healing support, I'm saying I wish I did so I could perform the responsibilities my role was meant for. It sucks playing a healer and having nothing to heal so I get stuck having to dps. My solution is to make healing more interesting and have fights make me do it more, not make the shit I don't wanna do (dps) more prevalent.

[ForsakenRoe]

My solution is to make healing more interesting and have fights make me do it more, not make the shit I don't wanna do (dps) more prevalent.

Unfortunately, the Venn diagram of 'amount of healing that will satisfy seasoned healer mains' and 'amount of healing that is still clearable by less skilled/newer-to-role healer players' are two distinct, non overlapping circles. There's no magical 'midpoint' where we get engaging healing gameplay as someone with any degree of competence, without it causing complaints for being 'too hard'. The usual response for this dilemma is 'well, obviously the casual content wouldn't be changed as much/at all, so the casual players don't get walled', but I'd argue (and have for several months, and will for several more most likely) that 'any solution for this problem which affects only a portion of the game's content (that is, only Savage and Ultimate, or Extreme trial and above), is not a solution, it's a bandaid'. I want to feel engaged in ANY content I play as a healer, even something like EX roulette or Maps. So excluding those pieces of content from being engaging for the sake of the casual players, isn't going to make my experience of capping tomes more 'fun and engaging'.

So any solution that would be acceptable, has to be in some way that is 'optional', as it were. Something that, should you mess it up due to lack of experience with the role, you will not cause a wipe or such. And 'more intricacy in the DPS rotation' is one of the simplest ways to do that, hence why people ask for it in such numbers. We aren't asking for DPS level complexity, most I've seen ask for either Tank level gameplay, or just 'can we have what we had in SB back'. It also would open design space for the devs to add new moves, interactions, mechanics to the jobs. We got 'We didn't really know what to do with SCH' this expansion, which led to Expedient. Would they have said they didn't know what to do with SCH, if they hadn't removed the possibility of 'here's a new action that deals damage' from the entire role? Or the possibility of interactions like 'Each time your DOTs deal damage, they generate Fairy Gauge', or 'Each time you deal damage with a WHM damage skill, you generate points in a new gauge, and at 50 gauge you can cast a massive AOE heal move'?

This topic has arisen more times than can be counted, and every time, it's the same premise, and the same rebuttals. It's like a pantomime

I'm trying to explain that your real issue is with being bored not that your not doing enough damage.

Fill the free time with healing not dps, I want combo heals, synergizing heals, proccing heals, and for any of that to be fun we need more and more frequent damage.

It has nothing to do with how MUCH damage we deal, and everything to do with HOW that damage is dealt. If we got a more involved rotation patched in, and our DPS didn't change at all, that's the ideal solution IMO. I don't care how much damage I'm doing, I care that I'm doing it by pressing Glare 160 times over the course of the fight.

The combo heal, proc heal etc sounds good on paper, but paper is as far as it goes before hitting issues. Example, people get annoyed about Minor Arcana. A 50% 'proc' on either a heal or damage, the one thing we don't want on healing tools is for them to be unreliable on whether they're available or not. We criticized Bole for AST because of this, a raid mit isn't exactly great if we can't guarantee it's up at the right time. Combo heals would be less of an issue, but I think that the reason that this kind of stuff can't work is because the game's just not built for it. We have far too much AOE healing potential. It works in something like WOW because their AOEs are all gated by CDs or are horribly inefficient (Holy Nova heals for almost nothing, Chain Heal is very Mana hungry and targetcapped, etc), we can throw out 3200 potency of healing (Medica 1) every 2.5s, and that's our most 'inefficient' healing option, Solace is free, Asylum is free, Lilybell is free, the other healers have other free tools.

Edit: Combo heals/proc heals actually already exist, now that I think about it. Cure1 has a chance to combo into Cure2, making it free. Cure2 used to have a chance to combo into Cure3, halving it's MP cost (very strange). Benefic has a chance to combo into Benefic 2, making it guaranteed to crit. We do not ever take advantage of any of these on purpose, because they're GCD heals and they suck. If we need to heal with a GCD heal, rather than Cure 1-ing to try for the free Cure 2, we'd just use the Cure2 twice as it's more healing power for the 2 GCDs it costs, and we don't care about the mana efficiency or lack thereof because MP management is apparently not a thing anymore

[Fellgon]

My opinion is that players wants transform final fantasy 14 in souls like game, but nobody played strangers of paradise multiplayer.

[Maltothoris]

If you want a more complex dps rotation then go play dps, literally know your role. If the argument was you want more support/healing responsibilities then I think you would find more support

Do you really think they would make more damage happen after what happened with Abyssos? In regards to support, what about when they took away disable from the astro and virus away from sch? How about when they made all the cards damage based and when they took away Selene's actions?

[WaxSw]

oh boy, and the endless cycle starts once again...

[4clubbedace]

I believe currently this is the most pressing issue in the entire game that needs to be addressed above everything else. That is my feedback.

the alternative is have even the most casual of content (dungeons) have just outright white knuckle heal/mit checks. But, i really dont think that would fly with a lot of the more casual player base, hard enough to get some tanks to use cooldowns

[Fellgon]

In my opinion if you and me have more complex dps rotation would drain our mana and so we wouldn't be able to heal effectively. And healing is a matter of seconds. That second we waste dpsing the party is gone.