I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Zeastria]

Cleanse lol, as if healers who know how to play were a plague.
Hate to break it for you but spamming cure 1 and medica 2 is not knowing how to heal, good healing is all about efficiency not mindless bulk of useless hps

Based on if they made healing req higher:
They would go OOM, and such healing would be too weak ^^

DPS and Tanks have expectations to their role..
so why shouldn't healers too? other then just do good dps?

Actually if they increased healing requirement, low skill healers would be booted from the role entirely. In this high healing requirement hypothetical, what happens in a boss if a dps is bad? Boss dies slower. If a tank is bad? Boss dies slower and healing requirement is higher. If the healer is bad? Wipe until the healer improves.

This is the primary concession that healer DPS provided--in lieu of a skill floor that would wall the party if not met, healers could express skill and reach a ceiling that primarily affected them and could be achieved through careful resource management.

J Allan Brack is a man I don't know beyond this quote but it does so often apply: "You think you want it, but you don't."

Increased healing requirements does not make healing itself harder!.
it just means you have to press your heal buttons more often ,
rather then pressing your 1,1,1,1 dps button..

Also healing requirements should inc gradually with your level....
that way even new player can learn..

[Nizzi]

DPS and Tanks have expectations to their role..
so why shouldn't healers too? other then just do good dps?

Increased healing requirements does not make healing itself harder!.
it just means you have to press your heal buttons more often ,
rather then pressing your 1,1,1,1 dps button..

Serious question: for someone who is constantly saying that they need to "make healers healers" implying they aren't already while calling others "dps-healers", do you actually do any endgame "high end" content on healers? Have you proven to yourself that you can handle the healing requirements of content that makes you press GCD heals more?

[Zeastria]

Serious question: for someone who is constantly saying that they need to "make healers healers" implying they aren't already while calling others "dps-healers", do you actually do any endgame "high end" content on healers? Have you proven to yourself that you can handle the healing requirements of content that makes you press GCD heals more?

Let me define what dps-healer is:
It's the type of player you meet in PF/random groups - who dosnt heal or ress -> bc it's a dps loss.

Also the content i want more healing req is in NORMAL content...
Ex,savage,ultimate is different topic all together( why even bring it up?).
You cant balance/build around both w/o one of them suffering for it!
- this game balance around endgame(savage,ultimates), yet majority of player doesn't play said content!

[Nizzi]

Let me define what dps-healer is:
It's the type of player you meet in PF/random groups - who dosnt heal or ress -> bc it's a dps loss.

Okay, so you're complaining about bad players. Majority of the players of this game are bad, which is why the normal content is easier than ever. Where players are concerned about DPS losses is in high end content that has DPS checks, not normal content where it doesn't. Discussions about DPS losses are inherently built around content with enrages, not normal mode content. If a player refuses to heal by not pressing the glut of oGCDs they have, they're very likely just a bad player, which is whatever.

Also the content i want more healing req is in NORMAL content...
Ex,savage,ultimate is different topic all together( why even bring it up?).

You: "There needs to be more healing requirements!"
Me: "Have you done the content where there's more healing requirements?"
You: "Why are you bringing that content up?"

lol

You cant balance/build around both w/o one of them suffering for it!
- this game balance around endgame(savage,ultimates), yet majority of player doesn't play said content!

This first part doesn't make sense at all and the second part is true because content that has enrages are where balance matters, content without it doesn't matter when you queue into it via DF and it randomly pairs you. There's not a chance of your job being locked out for being "unviable" in a random DF group without it being a reportable offense for them kicking you because of the job you queued in on. The current design of healers is built around the low end, the "normal mode" playerbase by the way. The developers have stated several times that it is, that they don't want healers to be focused on DPSing over healing and the gutting of DPS buttons from the healer jobs is so that they can have more of a "heal focused playstyle" (despite high end content being the one where this design doesn't work the most). Numerically the jobs are balanced at the high end, but the role design is absolutely not and is designed for normal mode healers "to not feel pressured to do DPS". I'll say to you what Yoshida said to us, if you're bored with your healing requirements, "go do Ultimate and suffer"

[Zeastria]

Okay, so you're complaining about bad players. Majority of the players of this game are bad, which is why the normal content is easier than ever. Where players are concerned about DPS losses is in high end content that has DPS checks, not normal content where it doesn't. Discussions about DPS losses are inherently built around content with enrages, not normal mode content. If a player refuses to heal by not pressing the glut of oGCDs they have, they're very likely just a bad player, which is whatever.



You: "There needs to be more healing requirements!"
Me: "Have you done the content where there's more healing requirements?"
You: "Why are you bringing that content up?"

lol



This first part doesn't make sense at all and the second part is true because content that has enrages are where balance matters, content without it doesn't matter when you queue into it via DF and it randomly pairs you. There's not a chance of your job being locked out for being "unviable" in a random DF group without it being a reportable offense for them kicking you because of the job you queued in on. The current design of healers is built around the low end, the "normal mode" playerbase by the way. The developers have stated several times that it is, that they don't want healers to be focused on DPSing over healing and the gutting of DPS buttons from the healer jobs is so that they can have more of a "heal focused playstyle" (despite high end content being the one where this design doesn't work the most). Numerically the jobs are balanced at the high end, but the role design is absolutely not and is designed for normal mode healers "to not feel pressured to do DPS". I'll say to you what Yoshida said to us, if you're bored with your healing requirements, "go do Ultimate and suffer"

All i ask is for us healers to have more healing in our gameplay..
Healing requirements shouldn't exist only in hardcore content
with pugs/new/unexperienced players lol..

Why is it so hard to comprehend.. that healers want to heal?
and don't forget the fact that Normal content is a big part of this game..

[Renathras]

Serious question: for someone who is constantly saying that they need to "make healers healers" implying they aren't already while calling others "dps-healers", do you actually do any endgame "high end" content on healers? Have you proven to yourself that you can handle the healing requirements of content that makes you press GCD heals more?

Yes. I suppose it depends on what all you consider high end, but Savages and Extremes. As I've said before, no Static, so I tend to run them sparingly, but I've been doing Extremes since HW, and did a first Coils run with my FC (including Twintania kill) back in ARR. Until EW, I ran Extremes a lot and enjoyed them. I don't care much for the EW ones because they often have big mit checks and/or body checks, which have made PF abject misery and just not-fun. It's not healing requirements at that point since people just outright die (Gales 2 says "hi"). At that point, the fights aren't about healing anymore, they're about DPSing and hoping the 7 cats you're herding don't screw up specific mechanics. And that's not fun.

But the changes aren't for the people content with healing, they're for the people bored.

EDIT:

Also idk why everyone assume, pressing more healing buttons
will make healing harder for casual player..

This.

I've explained it before, but it constantly gets ignored. Some people don't have a mind for DPS. Give them more DPS buttons and they can't handle it. But give them more healing requirements and they handle that just fine.

This idea that people can't press Regen or Cure 2 is just inane to me.

[ForsakenRoe]

But the changes aren't for the people content with healing, they're for the people bored.

So how do you make the people who are bored need to heal more, without affecting the healing demanded of the people who are content with current healing requirements?

[Renathras]

So how do you make the people who are bored need to heal more, without affecting the healing demanded of the people who are content with current healing requirements?

This question is a double edged sword - how do you make a damage increase for the people who are bored without affecting the people who are content with the current model?

[Sebazy]

I've explained it before, but it constantly gets ignored. Some people don't have a mind for DPS. Give them more DPS buttons and they can't handle it. But give them more healing requirements and they handle that just fine.

This idea that people can't press Regen or Cure 2 is just inane to me.

Because APM matters.

Because Hotkey muscle memory matters.

Because Spatial awareness matters.

Because Content experience matters.

Because Resilience under pressure matters.

These are all things that non DPSing healers have a tendency to struggle with. Deny it all you want, it's a simple fact.

It's not just as simple as pressing Regen or Cure 2. They can't handle more DPS buttons because they don't have the APM or awareness and oversight to utilise them effectively. And if they don't have good enough awareness or APM, that is going to hamper their ability to heal as well. Go look through your 24 man co healers over the last few years, it's right there in the logs. Look at the healers that have a low CPM rate, odds are they are the ones that are failing at DPSing, failing at healing and failing at mechanics. All 3 things go hand in hand. As such, holding some kind of belief that a healer who isn't able to handle doing DPS with some vague level of complexity will be more than fine at being an Osu superstar once the red buttons turn green is insane to me.

[Shurrikhan]

Because APM matters.

Because Hotkey muscle memory matters.

Because Spatial awareness matters.

Because Content experience matters.

Because Resilience under pressure matters.

These are all things that non DPSing healers have a tendency to struggle with. Deny it all you want, it's a simple fact.

Though, increase their healing requirements and you tend to get at least the same degree of frustration as if their damage optimization required were increased (e.g., if their filler+DoT loop were specifically nerfed AND Healer DPS were actually made more impactful), except now it spills over from just them... to the party they repeatedly end up letting die.




To be clear, I think we could increase healing requirements quite a bit before we our answer should go from "...Learn at least the basics of play, then?" to genuine concern...

...but I don't get how anyone could think that others living or dying by their making correct decisions as to the necessary healing to be done in the next 2, 5, 10, etc., seconds and the most efficient ways to do that over time, and what mitigation will have to be out by what moment -- as per life under 75+% of uptime spent healing -- would somehow stress players less than 1-2 extra downtime tools.

Hell, even a 10% increase in the healing required (i.e.., 10% sustain potency per minute needed to prevent deaths) would be a fair bit more stressful to most than a 10% increase to damage possible (10% higher ceiling to rDPS, which may require optimizing additional tools to generate).