I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Sebazy]

No one wants to be a heal slave. You're free to go play MapleStory and Ragnarok Online if you want. Everyone wants to contribute to damage in meaningful ways.

In fairness, I disagree there. There are indeed a pretty substantial number of people who would prefer to actually be able to play the healbot. It’s just this game doesn’t really support that at any level in its current form.

IMO the compromise is buffing. But SE are too afraid/incapable of investing the time needed to get it right.

[Mithron]

In fairness, I disagree there. There are indeed a pretty substantial number of people who would prefer to actually be able to play the healbot. It’s just this game doesn’t really support that at any level in its current form.

IMO the compromise is buffing. But SE are too afraid/incapable of investing the time needed to get it right.

No, they only think they do. Then when they get it, they'll realize the fatigue and boredom (especially in non-relevant content) and quickly realize how wrong they were then beg to revert. Not to mention how the players willing to heal would drop that much more and waiting for healers would be obscenely longer.

[Renathras]

No, they only think they do. Then when they get it, they'll realize the fatigue and boredom (especially in non-relevant content) and quickly realize how wrong they were then beg to revert. Not to mention how the players willing to heal would drop that much more and waiting for healers would be obscenely longer.

No, Sebazy's right.

Not everyone actually enjoys DPSing. In games with four roles (Tank, Heal, DPS, Support), DPS makes up only around 30% of players, meaning around 2 out of 3 want to do something else. Many people pick Healers specifically because they like supporting and aiding allies and don't derive joy from big damage numbers nor satisfaction from executing a DPS rotation.

This is very much a "you think you do, but you don't" statement.

You may be correct that there are LESS people that want to be pure healers than the number of healers now, but the fact remains, there are genuinely people that would be content not dealing damage in group content. I remember in ARR being told that healers don't have MP for damage dealing, so only heal. Did that in tons of content and enjoyed it all just fine. I've also played games where healers couldn't deal damage for various reasons (generally MP), like Holy Priest and Resto Druid in BC and Wrath era WoW where you pretty much didn't hit an attack spell in group content (the whole "I'm going to WAND you to death!" meme was real for a reason), and people loved it. I loved it.

So you speak for yourself, not everyone, when you say "Everyone wants to contribute to damage in meaningful ways."

There are a lot of people who would be content only casting heals, and there are others who wouldn't, but would rather, as Sebazy says, contribute by buffing instead of damage dealing. This isn't saying there aren't people who want to deal damage and be kind of hybrid DPS/healers - there very clearly are - but not everyone "wants to contribute to damage".

[Connor]

In fairness, I disagree there. There are indeed a pretty substantial number of people who would prefer to actually be able to play the healbot. It’s just this game doesn’t really support that at any level in its current form.

IMO the compromise is buffing. But SE are too afraid/incapable of investing the time needed to get it right.

I do! My favourite content to heal was The Feast as a Scholar, back when they removed the healer dps abilities but kept the damage amounts the same so it was a constant battle just to keep people alive on top of dealing with stuff like CC, or running around grabbing those bloody potions or the medals lol. I even actually had to use Physick! There was so much healing required that you’d just bottom out of MP really fast if you spammed Adloquium with abandon. It was one of the few times I ever felt like a ‘real healer’.

That said, naturally I don’t expect anything like that to ever manifest in ffxiv’s PvE lol, it would completely demolish the healer player-base with how much work it would required. It would be too much of a 180 from how content is currently, that it wouldn’t be fair to make it the norm.

But still, we (well, I) do exist! Just hiding in dark corners dreaming of things that will never be. I do agree that buffing is a very good compromise way, since it allows for a healer to contribute in more varied ways than just directly dealing damage to the enemy

[Renathras]

Please just stop. What you propose has debunked 10000000 times ever since ARR (and even though there were more sources of damage back then). With its gcd and encounter design this game is NOT made for -reactive- heal bots. Stop with this bs that seemingly only comes from clueless people.

I don't think "debunked" is the correct word here.

But still, we (well, I) do exist! Just hiding in dark corners dreaming of things that will never be. I do agree that buffing is a very good compromise way, since it allows for a healer to contribute in more varied ways than just directly dealing damage to the enemy

Honestly, I feel the same way. I prefer more healing, but I like buffing, too. The problem is it has to be buffing...well, works as a "rotation". For example, I hate AST right now (despite it being the most buffy of the healers) because it's oGCD power weaves you try to unload all in the 2 min burst windows as oGCD weaves between Malific casts. If they were GCDs and you were casting them all the time (like imagine some parallel universe where AST Draw and Play were GCDs but Draw had no CD so you could literally just keep rotating cards on party members to keep full buff uptime in between healing), that would be kind of fun.

So it's not just "does buffs" but how, and in this game, that means GCDs.

EDIT:

You hate skill and hate high APM jobs. That's really all I'm seeing.

That's because you're blind, can't pass up any of my posts without a snarky and insulting reply, and don't read.
And no, I'm not wasting one of my daily posts on you to say that. Unlike you, I don't run a dozen alts so I can get around the post limit.

EDIT2:

I do agree that giving healers oGCD buffs wouldn’t solve the issue, because as you say it would simply become ‘thing you use between dps casts’ as opposed to being a meaningful support option.

The thing is, we’ve actually had quite a few GCD buff spells in the past, the developers just will not stop removing them. Take Bard. They had Foe Requiem which was a standard cast, drained MP, increased damage taken by enemies (ok that’s a debuff but still lol), Mage’s Ballad and Army’s Paeon worked the same and gave a buff that gradually restored MP / TP. Warden’s Paean was initially a GCD spell (though weirdly no Mp cost), so Bards could actively remove status ailments or choose to proactively cast it on a party member (though it was kinda busted in PvP lol). There’s even more the further back you go. In the game’s alpha Archer has a ton of debilitating status effects attached to its weaponskills, Rain of Death even used to lower damage dealt to the enemy. Naturally these are all abilities for a different role, but at the same time they’re proof that ffxiv can have gcd based support abilities that actually affect a job’s playstyle and don’t fall into the trap of ‘just slap it between your dps spells’.

And yes, there is of course the trumpet in the room that all those support abilities had to get removed because it was like, disgustingly, game-breaking(ly), unstoppably over-powered in raids. But still, I feel like they could’ve worked to simply balance them more appropriately than just throw the entire concept out the window

I think spells like Bravery and Protect from Bozja should go into role skills for healers too. GCD support spells that can easily be utilised for optimal output, ignored completely, or used casually as and when required.

Yeah, pretty much agree with all this.

Worst part is, they do it with our healing, too.

Stoneskin? Nah fam, Divine Benison. /facepalm
Cure 2? Nah fam, Tetragrammaton (okay, Solace, but...just for WHM, the other healer Jobs all do it with oGCDs).

I'd much rather "Proshell" as a 10/20 sec buff that has to be cast vs Temperance being an oGCD weave that does the same thing with no effort.

EDIT...3?:

I'm not wrong, you said you want every healer to cast everything on the GCD basically, which means, yes, the job becomes slower, there's much lower APM, and there are no more complicated burst windows, yes that quite literally means you don't like jobs requiring high skill, what I'm hearing is you want it to be like SMN, everything is on the GCD

Source?

You're still wrong - I've never said I want every healer to cast everything on the GCD, "basically" or otherwise. I've said I think the majority of healing should be on the GCD to force people to break "X-spam" up and make healing actually require thought. Even there, I think there should be oGCD heals, I just think they shouldn't be one-button-solutions to all problems and should generally be for patch up, for emergencies (Benediction), or used in tandem with GCD heals (Plenary Indulgence, etc)

I don't think there should be DAMAGE DEALER burst windows on healers, because they're HEALERS, but even there I make exception. The entire 4 Healers Model I push all the time, in fact, would require at least one healer Job to have one, and possibly as many as three.

Also, SMN doesn't have everything on the GCD. Energy Drain, Fester, Searing Light, Enkindle, and Astral Flow, of which you get 1 for each Demi, 4 for Titan, 2 for Ifrit, and 1 for Garuda (making 9 per 60 seconds) are all oGCDs.

I'm not sure how you could be more wrong if you tried with that post, Titan.

[FenyxRising]

I hate AST right now (despite it being the most buffy of the healers) because it's oGCD power weaves you try to unload all in the 2 min burst windows as oGCD weaves between Malific casts. If they were GCDs and you were casting them all the time (like imagine some parallel universe where AST Draw and Play were GCDs but Draw had no CD so you could literally just keep rotating cards on party members to keep full buff uptime in between healing), that would be kind of fun.

You hate skill and hate high APM jobs. That's really all I'm seeing.

That's because you're blind, can't pass up any of my posts without a snarky and insulting reply, and don't read.
And no, I'm not wasting one of my daily posts on you to say that. Unlike you, I don't run a dozen alts so I can get around the post limit.

I'm not wrong, you said you want every healer to cast everything on the GCD basically, which means, yes, the job becomes slower, there's much lower APM, and there are no more complicated burst windows, yes that quite literally means you don't like jobs requiring high skill, what I'm hearing is you want it to be like SMN, everything is on the GCD

[Ivtrix]

You hate skill and hate high APM jobs. That's really all I'm seeing.

[Connor]

snip

I do agree that giving healers oGCD buffs wouldn’t solve the issue, because as you say it would simply become ‘thing you use between dps casts’ as opposed to being a meaningful support option.

The thing is, we’ve actually had quite a few GCD buff spells in the past, the developers just will not stop removing them. Take Bard. They had Foe Requiem which was a standard cast, drained MP, increased damage taken by enemies (ok that’s a debuff but still lol), Mage’s Ballad and Army’s Paeon worked the same and gave a buff that gradually restored MP / TP. Warden’s Paean was initially a GCD spell (though weirdly no Mp cost), so Bards could actively remove status ailments or choose to proactively cast it on a party member (though it was kinda busted in PvP lol). There’s even more the further back you go. In the game’s alpha Archer has a ton of debilitating status effects attached to its weaponskills, Rain of Death even used to lower damage dealt to the enemy. Naturally these are all abilities for a different role, but at the same time they’re proof that ffxiv can have gcd based support abilities that actually affect a job’s playstyle and don’t fall into the trap of ‘just slap it between your dps spells’.

And yes, there is of course the trumpet in the room that all those support abilities had to get removed because it was like, disgustingly, game-breaking(ly), unstoppably over-powered in raids. But still, I feel like they could’ve worked to simply balance them more appropriately than just throw the entire concept out the window

I think spells like Bravery and Protect from Bozja should go into role skills for healers too. GCD support spells that can easily be utilised for optimal output, ignored completely, or used casually as and when required.

[WaxSw]

If they made healing requirement harder --> it would clense out the dps-healers
and we would actually get ppl decent/good at the role in our duties. ^o^

Cleanse lol, as if healers who know how to play were a plague.
Hate to break it for you but spamming cure 1 and medica 2 is not knowing how to heal, good healing is all about efficiency not mindless bulk of useless hps

[SaberMaxwell]

If they made healing requirement harder --> it would clense out the dps-healers
and we would actually get ppl decent/good at the role in our duties. ^o^

Actually if they increased healing requirement, low skill healers would be booted from the role entirely. In this high healing requirement hypothetical, what happens in a boss if a dps is bad? Boss dies slower. If a tank is bad? Boss dies slower and healing requirement is higher. If the healer is bad? Wipe until the healer improves.

This is the primary concession that healer DPS provided--in lieu of a skill floor that would wall the party if not met, healers could express skill and reach a ceiling that primarily affected them and could be achieved through careful resource management.

J Allan Brack is a man I don't know beyond this quote but it does so often apply: "You think you want it, but you don't."