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  1. #1
    Player
    ForsakenRoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    2,370
    Character
    Samantha Redgrayve
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Absurdity View Post
    But that brings us to the usual problem, even if they made proper healing-intensive fights they will still be 100% limited to just savage, ultimate and maybe the odd extreme. So in the majority of content, expert roulette, alliance raid, normal raid, treasure maps, etc you will still be bored to death.
    Yes, this is the point that gets lost in the sauce it seems. It's not a case of 'healer is boring in Savage because 111111', it's that if you've done {whatever level of content} and gotten accustomed to that level of gameplay, then anything below that is more bland because 111111. Changing Savage to hit harder so we have to heal more, for example, does not address the tedium of 24mans or EX roulette, they'll still be as monotonous as before, because we cannot bump them too much or casual players will suffer (supposedly). So instead, a simple, yet focused 2 or 3 changes to each healer's damage rotation, balanced in such a way that ignoring the new additions is a smaller potency loss than something like 'ignoring your DOT' is right now, is what to look into, I think. If someone is skilled enough to use the new rotation, they can. If they are not, they can ignore parts of it until they get more comfortable with the job and start to throw in more and more of the rotation. Nobody is going to cause a wipe in Lapis Manalis because they could not work out how to effectively use their new Miasma DOT on SCH. They might, however, cause a wipe if they cannot keep up with the fact Cagnazzo has learned how to make his water AOEs do 30% more damage, or that they had to press more healing spells, ran out of MP for the first time in their time playing FFXIV and could not cast any more spells.

    None of us went from zero damage spells to instantly full blast. We started by throwing in our DOT here and there, then maybe a Stone or two, and working our way up. In fact, I would put real money on the following statement being true:
    'Back in SB, when SCH had Miasma at 24s and Bio2 at 30s, a fairly large chunk of the playerbase settled for just refreshing both at the same time when Miasma needed refreshing, clipping Bio by 6s each time for a small DPS loss.'
    It wasn't 'required' for SCHs to make sure to NEVER clip Bio's duration in the way described above. Those two lost ticks per 24s would not have been the make-or-break thing that causes a clear vs enrage, especially when AST existed in the form that it did. But some love to imply that any amount of extra complexity will have casuals causing wipes left and right due to missed DOT ticks and losing casts due to analysis paralysis on 'what damage button do I press next'
    (10)
    Last edited by ForsakenRoe; 08-26-2023 at 02:07 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Tint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    In the right-hand attic
    Posts
    4,345
    Character
    Karuru Karu
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe View Post
    Yes, this is the point that gets lost in the sauce it seems. It's not a case of 'healer is boring in Savage because 111111', it's that if you've done {whatever level of content} and gotten accustomed to that level of gameplay, then anything below that is more bland because 111111. Changing Savage to hit harder so we have to heal more, for example, does not address the tedium of 24mans or EX roulette, they'll still be as monotonous as before, because we cannot bump them too much or casual players will suffer (supposedly).
    With the amount of healing and mitigation tools non-healers have available they pretty much can increase the healing requirements in easier content. When the casual healer can't keep up then the rest of the party can step up their game.
    (1)
    It’s a good thing not to answer your enemies. I scarcely ever do. Perhaps Emily is more like me than I am like myself. Perhaps she would rather not answer her friends, even. She keeps it all in her heart.

  3. #3
    Player
    ForsakenRoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    2,370
    Character
    Samantha Redgrayve
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tint View Post
    With the amount of healing and mitigation tools non-healers have available they pretty much can increase the healing requirements in easier content. When the casual healer can't keep up then the rest of the party can step up their game.
    Not all damage is avoidable, though. Should SE tune healing required from the healer around the party standing in every AOE, zero AOEs, or some point in between? And if it's some midpoint, where, 50% of AOEs stood in? 75%, 25%? When you consider how much damage EG the thunder tiger guy in Aetherfont can put out if you stand in every AOE, it's ridiculously high. But you're not meant to, you're meant to dodge those AOEs. And if you dodge every AOE, suddenly the damage he does to you is woefully low. So, do we need less dodgeable damage and more raidwide damage? Maybe that's got the beginnings of an idea, but again, it'll potentially cause some casuals to be unable to keep up and cause wipes. If 'more damage buttons' is not the solution for that reason, then more healing required sure isn't, imo

    Imagine that every time that thunder guy does a jump to place lightning tendrils to dodge, he also does proximity damage from where he lands. Suddenly, even with dodging those four back to back jumps, and dodging the lightning they spawn, you still have to worry about taking say 30%-50% of your HP bar per jump (based on gear and distance), and the threat of someone getting combo'd by that damage, into a lightning they didn't quite dodge, means you have to be more on the ball with healing. But again, what if the healer is unable to keep up? What if they cannot heal because they're too focused on trying to dodge the mechanic, so someone dies? Or worse, what if it's the healer that dies to this extra damage? It's been used as a reason in the past, to keep things more approachable for casuals: 'if the healer is the only source of Res and goes down, the party is all but doomed to a wipe, so SE tries to keep the stress of the healer role lower to avoid that outcome'. Adding more healing required in this regard would run counter to that design approach
    (3)