Redo FFXIV: Remove the dance, introduce RNG encounters

[Oizen]

Imagine rolling the downtime mechanic on a boss 5 times in a row

[Tahbitha]

So... you don't really want to remove the dance, you just want to randomize it?

Or in other words... sometimes it's more fun to first bring your knees in tight, and then put your hands on your hips?

Interesting...

[LilimoLimomo]

Personally, I think the dance is the best thing that FFXIV's combat has going for it right now, and thus removing it without also doing some manner of rework to the combat system would only make the game worse. Because the cadence and progression of mechanics is the fight, in the same way that the precise steps you take in Dance Dance Revolution are the song. And that's what I enjoy about FFXIV's combat.

Beyond that, changing the order of mechanics doesn't make it any more challenging, it just means the flow would be random. You'd lose the rhythm of the fight, and it would be replaced with randomness. I suppose that might impact some players who depend on memorizing the order of mechanics, but I just see the tells and react to them, so it wouldn't make them any harder for players like me.

I wouldn't be opposed to adjusting the game's combat systems, but changing the dance without actually adding new gameplay elements sounds like a losing way to go about it.

[Connor]

I do agree that something needs to be done about encounter design because it’s become so predictable we even know mechanics for primals that don’t exist lol (because they’ll be same ones we’ve already seen).

At the same time, dismantling and rebuilding the encounter design to change it’s heavily scripted nature would require an ungodly amount of work lol. But as we all know, SE is just a poor little indie company with very limited resources (sarcasm lol). Considering they barely even find the time to balance jobs between expansions, I don’t see them putting in the time/effort on something like this

[Amnmaat]

Thank you to those who see the bigger picture.
But I'm literally flabbergasted at those who replied with "making it random won't make the game harder."

I'll quote myself, having to do this a lot in this forum haha, wow

If cbu3 doesn't want harder content then how about removing the scripted fights?
The solution is simple, remove the script and let boss encounters do mechanics randomly.

This way you kinda keep the same difficulty but you keep the user (player) engaged in the fight as they don't know what will happen next during the fight. Currently the game's extremely predicted, to the point where a preteen could learn the scripted fight and rarely ever take damage. That's the level of engagement of this game.

Imagine rolling the downtime mechanic on a boss 5 times in a row

Where in this script example would the boss do the same mechanic 5 times in a row?

auto attacks
2. Rng script: Stand on circles
auto attacks
3. Rng script (can't use stand on circle): Meteor towers
auto attacks
4. Rng script (can't use stand on circles nor meteor towers): Circles were 10 people stand on them
auto attacks
5. Rng script (can't use circles, meteor showers, nor stand on circles): Use line lazer

[Amnmaat]

stuff

I bring up the example of casual content in Crystal Tower and you latch onto savage? This is not about extreme, savage, or ultimate content. Bringing up the fact that it won't make the content harder per say and using Crystal Tower and example should be clear this is not about making extreme, savage, and ultimates more engaging.

[Kemiko]

Personally, I'd enjoy mechanics just happening at random times in the fight with each one having an internal cooldown (like how us as players have cooldowns for our own skills). A super simple solution to a problem people bring up (even Yoshida) whenever someone asks for some randomness in the fight.

We have some randomness in our fights already with with certain mechanics having variations within themselves but the fact that almost every fight starts with the healer are-you-paying-attention raidwide is exactly the sort of predictive stuff that I believe is what adds to that feeling of sameness folks want a breath of fresh air from.

Take a boss, allow it to roll its mechanics but give them a CD so they can't do the same mechanic back-to-back-to-back. And maybe make a boss that doesn't have portions where they just auto-attack for a bit. Let them ABC.

[Rithy255]

Wouldn't mind more RNG, could do a mix really.

I don't think current design is bad but some RNG and uniqueness would actually breathe a lot of life into reruns.

[Saraide]

This thread is describing how seat of sacrifice extreme works. Pretty good ex fight imo.

[Shurrikhan]

This thread is describing how seat of sacrifice extreme works. Pretty good ex fight imo.

If that were the limit of it, I'd probably be for the idea. Similarly if it were reasonably restricted so that the individual mechanics don't have to be nerfed to hell to cover for the chance of them going off back to back, then the idea wouldn't as likely harm as improve the game.

But, there doesn't even seem to be any attention to bundling (varying specific courses, rather than simply randomizing each part, as to have synergetically higher --but still actively manageable-- difficulty), let alone any consideration of specific interactions or setting up taxonomies/categories of mechanics to resolve the new issues such as system would need to sort out.

It therefore all just feels very 'tossed-out-there' as if surely the details (which matter a whole lot more than the whatever label you slap onto the 'overarching design') will just sort themselves out somehow, so I'mma wait on this one. The idea could be applied more broadly than just the certain fights we already see portions of it in, if the work were put it; otherwise, probably not.