Why are there no multi-hit skills on Sage?

[VictorSpoils]

What Forsaken Roe said. I also think 14 could use "more multi-hit" abilities anyway. Functionally they'd work as they do now but it would feel more satisfying seeing a few flying texts pop up on abilities like dyskrasia, phantom rush or abdomen tear where it LOOKS like the enemy is taking damage from rapid hits.

Rage of Halone and Chaos Thrust used to be like that. Wouldn't mind that being a thing again.

[Doozer]

Because you are intentionally ignoring the point of the post for a technicality

We all know how kardia works the post is saying that it would be interesting there were skills that procced kardia multiple times

Didn't know you knew my intentions. But sure, allow me.

Why are there no multi-hit skills on Sage?

Why does there need to be? Many jobs don't have multi-hit skills.

Sage benefits greatly from just having multi-hit skills

How?

to activate kardia multiple times in a short span of time to give some depth and breadth into the kardia system.

Why does it need depth? It's basically a manual regen or Eos' Embrace. Each GCD from the SGE is like a tick from either of those.

Not to mention, multi-hit skills put less stress on having one gigantic crit variance for balance purposes by spreading the crit variance into multiple hits.

I've never felt stress about Kardia not healing enough because during normal autos it's sufficient. If Kardia could outheal massive tankbusters and raidwides it would be extremely unbalanced. Relying solely on Kardia to heal so much that a crit can throw you off is not a game balance problem.

I've heard people say the game can't support multihit

Who is saying this?

but it's not as if we don't have multi-hit skills in the game either.
- Ninja's PvE skill "Dream within a dream" is an ability that attacks with multiple hits.
- Bard's PvE skill "Straight Shot" is a weaponskill that can be modified to do multi-hit with the skill Barrage.
- PvP's Bard's Empyreal Arrow is an ability that works to fire off multi-hit based on the number of stored charges.

These are all DPS jobs, which work differently from healers on a fundamental level.

It's already in both PvE and in PvP, and has been proven the game works with skills regardless whether they are on the global cooldown or not. What's stopping this type of implementation on Sage, a job that wants to hit as many times as possible to activate Kardia?

I don't think it's designed to hit as many times as possible in order to heal. It's like expecting a WHM's Regen, an AST's Aspected Benefic, or SCH's Eos' Embrace to do all the healing. Why does Kardia suddenly need to be fancier than any other healer's passive healing? That's what it is, by the way. Passive healing. It just encourages DPSing rather than allowing it.

There, I both read and acknowledged every point OP made. My point still stands. Hope this helps!

[AmiableApkallu]

Why does Kardia suddenly need to be fancier than any other healer's passive healing? That's what it is, by the way. Passive healing.

I think the idea might be to re-imagine/re-work Sage such that Kardia is part of the job's active healing kit.

[Renathras]

kardia should form the majority of the healing of SGE

Setting aside the hyperbole and "too easy" remarks:

The above I agree with. Kardia would be such a cooler mechanic and SGE more distinct from SCH (and all the other healer Jobs, honestly) if it worked as Kardia management. As it is, it can output more raw healing than SCH and enough to solo heal encounters. Its "weak" GCD heals (which are just as strong as everyone else's GCD heals, so not really "weak") aren't a detriment when it has massive amounts of free oGCD healing with short CDs plus oGCD mitigation that also has short CDs.

No idea on the multi-hit thing. I still feel like EuDosis ticks should also proc little Kardia heals making it into a Regen. AOE situations would allow you to get some serious healing on your Kardia targets by spreading your DoT. That would be kind of cool.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't think it's designed to hit as many times as possible in order to heal. It's like expecting a WHM's Regen, an AST's Aspected Benefic, or SCH's Eos' Embrace to do all the healing. Why does Kardia suddenly need to be fancier than any other healer's passive healing? That's what it is, by the way. Passive healing. It just encourages DPSing rather than allowing it.

Okay, let's be clear here:

No part of the suggestion that, hey, maybe the currently dull-as-grass Kardia mechanic could actually gain some manner of control and variance as to be more interesting precludes other job's passive healing doing the same. SCH could easily have a pet MP bar and a stronger Embrace that is not continuously sustainable and is generally best used manually; AST could regain time manipulation as to be able to extend or triple the tick rate (at cost to duration) of its HoTs, giving them some further interaction; WHM could duplicate bonus healing onto its targets affected by Regen whenever they use a ST direct heal, or emanate that bonus healing to allies near the Regened recipient of an ST direct heal; etc., etc.

As for Kardia being dull because 'it was supposed/designed to be' dull... Then should that be considered a good/sufficient design?

Like, you can say this pistol is being used as a tonfa because it's supposed to be used as a tonfa, and you could be wholly right, but... why, then, decide to use a gun instead of just a tonfa? If SGE's tool was only ever supposed to amount to a passive regen that further punishes the use of GCD heals / extends the curve SGE's DPS-per-healing-required... why even bother with "deals damage on hit" for that?

It's just a bit of a Chekov's Gun situation, alike to RDM only ever using its sword as a convoluted equivalent to Foul, rather than imitating any of the job's more traditional versatility. And it seems especially odd to use the blandness of any one or more healers as an excuse then to shut down even conversation on making a core mechanic of any other healer less bland.

[Calysto]

*Toss a monkey paw*

You now have a focus laser and can't move for 6s that deal damage and proc kardia every 1s.

If SE do what you ask for it'll probably be that.

[Absurdity]

*Toss a monkey paw*

You now have a focus laser and can't move for 6s that deal damage and proc kardia every 1s.

If SE do what you ask for it'll probably be that.

I certainly wouldn't mind as that would require some planning instead of just "press button, make green bar go up".

[Supersnow845]

I certainly wouldn't mind as that would require some planning instead of just "press button, make green bar go up".

The only problem I can see is that if it’s a DPS loss it goes down the route of ShB lilies, if it’s neutral it just ends up like pneuma where it’s functionally an oGCD or if it’s a gain then the heal stops being important

[Allegor]

I guess that's just where opinions differ, I find Kardia to be extremely lacking, not necessarily it's potency but it's utilization as a mechanic.

What does Kardia currently do? It heals a single player for a single instance of 170 potency every time you cast a damage spell and it can be buffed for 4 casts with Soteria, that is literally all the interaction it has with Sage's healing kit.

What people are asking for is to make Kardia a more integral mechanic for the job, so instead of 10 different oGCDs that all "just heal by X potency" you get more options to interact with Kardia as a healing mechanic.

As an example let's say instead of Druochole's flat 600 potency healing you get a multi-hit spell that procs 3-4 instances of Kardia or instead of Ixochole you get an ability that spreads Kardia to the entire party for the next 2-3 attacks you do.

Pretty much this. Kardia is SGE's identity, like cards are to AST or the fairy to SCH, it should be the job's core mechanic, not just a Regen/Embrace clone

[Supersnow845]

Pretty much this. Kardia is SGE's identity, like cards are to AST or the fairy to SCH, it should be the job's core mechanic, not just a Regen/Embrace clone

Though it’s not like they care about healer identity considering SCH’s core identity of the fairy tactician healer has been reduced down to “eos can totem heal on some skills”