People Enjoy hard Games

[Ath192]

Catching up on this thread I also agree that the game never changed, that’s the problem. It only fell into disrepair because the old content which is now 90% of the content in the game was never designed to provide a good experience with abilities with much higher potencies and the content was never meant to be played with reduced job kits that keep spreading out the same amount of abilities across an ever growing number of levels.

Yet somehow, there are people that defend this and worse even, the devs are bringing down the difficulty of new content down to the garbage experience of current older content.

I’m sure it’s easier for them because they don’t have to come up with novel ideas but to me the game is now a revolving door of disposable content designed to churn players constantly instead of retaining them.

What makes a game more fun, especially a multiplayer one is wondering if this time we are going to make it and succeed. Because that is not a guarantee then playing the same content over and over is more exciting. What this game has become though is pretty much guaranteed success, and so there is no fun in running the same thing over and over with the same results. There’s no fulfillment for the player.

[Aldath]

Catching up on this thread I also agree that the game never changed, that’s the problem. It only fell into disrepair because the old content which is now 90% of the content in the game was never designed to provide a good experience with abilities with much higher potencies and the content was never meant to be played with reduced job kits that keep spreading out the same amount of abilities across an ever growing number of levels.

Yet somehow, there are people that defend this and worse even, the devs are bringing down the difficulty of new content down to the garbage experience of current older content.

I’m sure it’s easier for them because they don’t have to come up with novel ideas but to me the game is now a revolving door of disposable content designed to churn players constantly instead of retaining them.

What makes a game more fun, especially a multiplayer one is wondering if this time we are going to make it and succeed. Because that is not a guarantee then playing the same content over and over is more exciting. What this game has become though is pretty much guaranteed success, and so there is no fun in running the same thing over and over with the same results. There’s no fulfillment for the player.

As long as the whales keep being mostly Limsa Catgirls and Hrothgar ERP Furries, this trend will keep up.

[NanaWiloh]

It's worse than that. Any trial or raid (both normal and 24) at a level cap (50, 60, 70, 80 and 90) do not have any item level syncing imposed upon them. However, dungeons do. So why is it that it is ok for dungeons to have a sync but the rest of the content doesn't? It makes no sense.

One must look at the ratio of players who want the raids to have some challenge to those who want to face melt everything and move on.

[Aravell]

There is a line between things blowing up when you look at them (Aglaia/Euphrosyne/CT) and mind-numbing sponges that barely do anything of note (NieR). I hope SE is careful to walk that line if they do end up fixing the ilvl creep. Something like Dun Scaith/Orbonne Monastery is pretty good, enough mechanics happen to be moderately threatening but also don't overstay their welcome by absorbing damage like an oversized sponge.

[Supersnow845]

It is story content, that doesn’t give you a free pass to not have to see mechanics; nor does CT present a good front for people who want to actually engage with the game. As I’ve said before even single player games expect competency out of, why is 14 excluded from this

Let’s say you are a new player to the game who has some measure of experience with RPG’s or other MMO’s, what is the first piece of content you do that is really going to engage you……..maybe holminster switch, I guess a bad run of doma castle, why should we put a bad front to people who are even semi familiar with the genre in the name of excessive accessibility, you go on and on about how making anything remotely difficult is a great “filter” for people but what about the people who are filtered by the fact that the game is boring prior to around SB if you have any familiarity with the genre (heaven help you pick a healer as your starting class), anectodal evidence is limited but I have more than a few friends who I have tried to drag into 14 who give up because 14’s first 150 hours are boring as hell, why are they less important than the person who can’t interact with a level 50 rotation.

Returning CT to its original difficulty presents a better front for newer people who want something to do in the lower levels without being any more of a wall for lower skilled players than current CT

Casual people love to go on about how “if you want more difficult content in current duties then you can make a PF and MINE them, how about if you are getting walled by current CT (read nobody) then you make a PF asking to be carried through CT

[VelKallor]

It is story content, that doesn’t give you a free pass to not have to see mechanics

They dont see mechanics in CT? News to me.

nor does CT present a good front for people who want to actually engage with the game.

A sweeping generalisation and and opinion supported by well..nothing other than your own bias.

Let’s say you are a new player to the game who has some measure of experience with RPG’s or other MMO’s, what is the first piece of content you do that is really going to engage you……..maybe holminster switch

I found Sastasha engaging. I loved it. I enjoyed a lot of instances. How do you know who finds what engaging? Where is all of this coming from?

Holminster Switch is far along in MSQ...why are you skipping past all the other instances before it?

Returning CT to its original difficulty presents a better front for newer people who want something to do in the lower levels without being any more of a wall for lower skilled players than current CT

And your proof that this is even remotely approaching the truth is...what exactly? "Presents a better front"..how did you reach this conclusion? How do you know any of this?

Casual people love to go on about how “if you want more difficult content in current duties then you can make a PF and MINE them, how about if you are getting walled by current CT (read nobody) then you make a PF asking to be carried through CT

Says who? When? Where? How do you know all of this anyway? All I am seeing is a load of imagined memes and absolute assumptions based on nothing..how do you know what anyone wants or thinks?

You dont.

Do you?

[Mikey_R]

They dont see mechanics in CT? News to me.

Alot of mechanics are skipped in CT in it's current state. Did you know the second boss of ST has a phase where you go to the outer platforms? I know, shocking.

Also, to claim adding an ilevel sync would gate people comes with the implication that the content used to gate people when it was new (it didn't) OR people have become less competent over time, which I believe is not the case.

Any attempt to say the content can potentially hard wall people is hyperbole based on nothing when we have evidence to the contrary, this applies to all content that does not have an ilevel sync, aka all non dungeon content.

Which brings up the next point, why is it a gate if you want to apply an ilevel sync to trials/raids but not a gate when it is applied to dungeons? Should we not remove it from dungeons incase it walls people?

But what about levelling dungeons? They are tuned much tighter than level capped dungeons, yet they don't hard wall people.

Everything points to the fact the player base will be able to cope with an ilevel cap on content. So why do you think the complete opposite.

[VelKallor]

I see we are back to “every argument you present is a biased opinion but every argument I say is a fact unless you can prove me otherwise

I asked what I asked.

Prevaricate all you like, it remains unanswered. Until you actually do so, not listening.

[Mikey_R]

I asked what I asked.

Prevaricate all you like, it remains unanswered. Until you actually do so, not listening.

Nothing of what I said was biased and/or based on opinion and is backed up by evidence. The biggest bit of evidence being people cleared it in the past, at lower ilevels before job power creep was a thing. Even with an ilevel sync, it will still be easier now than it was back in ARR due to said job power creep.

So really, the question is, why do think the content would hard wall people just because it gains an ilevel sync? Remember, nothing I have said is based off of opinion, so you cannot throw that back at me. However, I would like to know the answer to the question I just proposed.

[Supersnow845]

^so my experience with other people is invalid but since you have the reverse experience that’s totally valid as a criticism/counterpoint

Do you not see the flaw in your own arguments, I presented mine and a lot of my friends perspectives on this, but apparently that’s just bias and generalisation, but you take the opposing side as a given that I have to disprove, what evidence do you have the average person finds sastasha engaging