People Enjoy hard Games

[Shurrikhan]

Once again field content sets the bar high for what content should be in this game

I’d also argue TA’s temperature mechanic killing you instantly for a failure and twice come ruin on DRN’s attacks alongside diablos are the perfect examples of that midcore difficulty we should be aiming for

...Why these, of all things? Especially for "midcore"?

When I think "midcore", I usually think something with cumulatively high cognitive load made of individually intuitive parts, guided towards mechanical intersections that don't suddenly overwhelm the player nor leave them bored, and usually aren't so individually strict as to forbid broader gambles or punish meeting 2 of 3 simultaneous mechanics identically to meeting 0 of 3, etc.

[Darnath]

To be fair I'm probably in the ultra minority that looks up content before diving first into it. I actually had somebody 'confront' me in a raid once (P2N) when I admitted "First time, but looked at a guide. Hope to not be a burden" with "Pfft, real gamers dive in head first blind". I just bit my tongue and scraped him off the floor every so often. Don't mind others going blind as I said before, but me, I rather not be a burden to the other healer in the group scraping my RoeButt off the floor.

I'd just like some middle ground somehow so the story is somewhat challenging for gimps like myself but there's some higher tier content for Ath192 and others to enjoy still but it seems like there's just a unsolvable trap that trying to cater to both groups just leaves one group completely unsatisfied.

And maybe it's a Crystal thing but I've had wipes in LotA

No tank picking up the Iron Giant and it actually cleaving down all the meteors? Check. Mechanics failure of not keeping the IG away (or at least facing away) from a meteor. Also wipes because all 4 people with meteor markers stacked on each other and then the tank had the boss to close to that stack of meteors. Wipe city.
People ignoring the Allagan Napalms and causing a wipe, yup. Mechanic failure because DPS/Healers (at least my alliance was killing 'em) didn't switch to the Napalms.
And the usual greeding on the last boss.

Sorry for rambling, but I really hope the devs can figure out something to keep both parties happy but I just don't know how it can be done.

[SXTC]

I agree... I spent many weeks fine tuning my rotation and I was getting good at it... And then they deleted that rotation in the next expansion... the game has gotten too easy.
And I don't mean that as in "end game, having to memorize all sequences" hard... because that is the annoying type of "hard".
I mean more in the sense that you need to know your spells & skills and learn how to combine them in the best order to get the best outcome... Your mindpower and will is what made you pro at some point... now its like you can no longer become pro... I miss that feeling of being better and the pride of having earned that feeling.

Lets be honest... Dumb people will always find the game hard even when its easy...
But they shouldn't fixate the game on dumb people, they should aim it towards adults who got money to spend and then make sure they have an easy time and a solid reason to spend money on the game. THAT is where the market is.

[Supersnow845]

I’m totally happy to be called a jaded veteran if we are discussing dying constantly in ARR alliance raids requiring high uptime of medica 2 being seen as a good thing that should be encouraged

ARR alliance raids have 3 instakill mechanics (I’m not counting Cerberus fail condition) and all give you plenty of time and context clues to resolve them (plus let’s not even mention the fact that if you can’t figure out why everyone else is standing behind the ice that’s kinda on you), MMO’s are about trial and failure and improvement, asking them to not sync CT to its PROPER level because it may wall new players is just a level of babying that is basically the foundation for what’s wrong with the design philosophy behind this game

It’s okay to die to a mechanic you don’t know, nobody minds safety heals (that does not mean casting medica 2 when medica 2 has 12 seconds left on its HOT) people should be encouraged to die and learn mechanics organically, not take away the ability to die to a mechanic, it’s like you don’t even want to play an MMO

Again if this makes me a self absorbed jaded veteran I’ll take that title, I’ve died in mechanics on normal raids millions of times, I learn from it, I don’t get embarrassed or defensive, even when a more competent person drags me through my first clear of the nier raids, isn’t that the attitude we should be encouraging, die and learn from your mistakes, not make it impossible to die

[ZephyrMenodora]

I’m totally happy to be called a jaded veteran if we are discussing dying constantly in ARR alliance raids requiring high uptime of medica 2 being seen as a good thing that should be encouraged

ARR alliance raids have 3 instakill mechanics (I’m not counting Cerberus fail condition) and all give you plenty of time and context clues to resolve them (plus let’s not even mention the fact that if you can’t figure out why everyone else is standing behind the ice that’s kinda on you), MMO’s are about trial and failure and improvement, asking them to not sync CT to its PROPER level because it may wall new players is just a level of babying that is basically the foundation for what’s wrong with the design philosophy behind this game

It’s okay to die to a mechanic you don’t know, nobody minds safety heals (that does not mean casting medica 2 when medica 2 has 12 seconds left on its HOT) people should be encouraged to die and learn mechanics organically, not take away the ability to die to a mechanic, it’s like you don’t even want to play an MMO

Again if this makes me a self absorbed jaded veteran I’ll take that title, I’ve died in mechanics on normal raids millions of times, I learn from it, I don’t get embarrassed or defensive, even when a more competent person drags me through my first clear of the nier raids, isn’t that the attitude we should be encouraging, die and learn from your mistakes, not make it impossible to die

Well there is the difference. I view my job as a healer to prevent death where I am able. They don’t need to die constantly to learn from being hit. It’s more taxing on the raid to rez constantly over casting a gcd heal.

You sound like a terrible healer who lords healing over new players so they die.

[Iscah]

ARR alliance raids have 3 instakill mechanics (I’m not counting Cerberus fail condition) and all give you plenty of time and context clues to resolve them

There are at least three in the Angra Mainyu fight alone, some of which occur multiple times in the single fight (coloured floor alternation, look away from Mortal Gaze, cure doom from failing Mortal Gaze, Lv150 Death). Not necessarily instant-instant but guaranteed sudden death if the player doesn't realise and doesn't take the correct steps to resolve them.

Plus Ancient Flare, Curtain Call, Behemoth meteors, dragonflies, stepping in Cerberus's goo without shrinking first, running away with the scary black circle marker in Xande's fight...

Several of those either happen quickly or do not have an intuitive solution, or at least one that can be worked out in the time you have before it splatters you.

[Shurrikhan]

I’m totally happy to be called a jaded veteran if we are discussing dying constantly in ARR alliance raids requiring high uptime of medica 2 being seen as a good thing that should be encouraged

ARR alliance raids have 3 instakill mechanics (I’m not counting Cerberus fail condition) and all give you plenty of time and context clues to resolve them (plus let’s not even mention the fact that if you can’t figure out why everyone else is standing behind the ice that’s kinda on you), MMO’s are about trial and failure and improvement, asking them to not sync CT to its PROPER level because it may wall new players is just a level of babying that is basically the foundation for what’s wrong with the design philosophy behind this game

There are at least three in the Angra Mainyu fight alone, some of which occur multiple times in the single fight (coloured floor alternation, look away from Mortal Gaze, cure doom from failing Mortal Gaze, Lv150 Death). Not necessarily instant-instant but guaranteed sudden death if the player doesn't realise and doesn't take the correct steps to resolve them.

Plus Ancient Flare, Curtain Call, Behemoth meteors, dragonflies, stepping in Cerberus's goo without shrinking first, running away with the scary black circle marker in Xande's fight...

Several of those either happen quickly or do not have an intuitive solution, or at least one that can be worked out in the time you have before it splatters you.

Tbf, that's content with at least 6 people capable of rezzing you, instead of 1-2. ARs therefore can take on more on-shots just due to being part of that larger swarm. I just wouldn't use that as a rationale for applying that unsparingly to Normal Raids, Extremes, Dungeons, etc.

...Though, whether a given mechanic should or should not be a OHKO has nothing to do with Medica II use/uptime...

I agree that some deaths are fine, but one-shots aren't especially necessary just to make players learn a mechanic; they're often less efficient for said learning, even, than what would be merely near-fatal with another attack rapidly following it (recoverable, but still very threatening).
_______

Also agree that the effects of power creep should be rolled back so that new players can actually experience the content at the weight originally intended, instead of just haphazard imitations thereof. That's been one of the largest turn-offs for many friends I've convinced to play the game, that their experience seems an afterthought plowed over so that people can do their daily roulettes faster.

[VelKallor]

I’m totally happy to be called a jaded veteran if we are discussing dying constantly in ARR alliance raids requiring high uptime of medica 2 being seen as a good thing that should be encouraged

More heals keeping people topped up is...a bad thing?

, MMO’s are about trial and failure and improvement, asking them to not sync CT to its PROPER level because it may wall new players is just a level of babying that is basically the foundation for what’s wrong with the design philosophy behind this game

So youd rather see new players hit a brick wall and quit?

i mean we've already heard another player here say they dont give a toss , if its too hard for them too bad so sad theres the door? Are you trying to INCREASE the churn rate?

[Supersnow845]

More heals keeping people topped up is...a bad thing?



So youd rather see new players hit a brick wall and quit?

i mean we've already heard another player here say they dont give a toss , if its too hard for them too bad so sad theres the door? Are you trying to INCREASE the churn rate?

You dying in CT is not going to wall anyone because it’s an alliance raid, that’s the entire point; but yes (and quote me on this till the end of time I know you of all people will), if you are getting hard walled by the difficulty of CT in its current form you shouldn’t be allowed to progress, games should expect a level of sloping competency, hell even single player games require it, why is 14 the only game that people who don’t want to interact with the systems should be given a free pass, you certainly aren’t clearing FFVI having terra stand there and spam cure all day

I for one am not the producer so I don’t make money off this game, so yes in my opinion having 500k people who don’t have a heart attack at non nerfed CT is better than 1.3 million who can’t handle the original CT AS IT WAS DESIGNED, call me a gatekeeper I’ve really stopped caring

Well there is the difference. I view my job as a healer to prevent death where I am able. They don’t need to die constantly to learn from being hit. It’s more taxing on the raid to rez constantly over casting a gcd heal.

You sound like a terrible healer who lords healing over new players so they die.

No I’m someone who acknowledges that death in this game isn’t a bad thing and we can learn from it, I won’t stop casting medica 2 to let someone die, I just acknowledge that if you barely do any damage because you are sitting there spamming medica 2 you are a net drain on the raid

[VelKallor]

if you are getting hard walled by the difficulty of CT in its current form you shouldn’t be allowed to progress,

You and 23 others who determine if you get past it or not. Or had you forgotten that small fact? I am not saying there should not be a challenge, I am saying that you MUST BALANCE THIS with the fact CT isnt extreme, isnt savage, isnt ultimate, is story content that is and should be able to be cleared by players with varying skill levels.

CT is now mandatory for MSQ and should be treated as such. You just want to make it "harder" for its own sake and have not taken any time to consider other factors that also come into game and encounter design.

you certainly aren’t clearing FFVI having terra stand there and spam cure all day

FF 16 is single player , is not pay to play, is not an MMO. Apples and oranges.

call me a gatekeeper I’ve really stopped caring

Yes. You are.

I just acknowledge that if you barely do any damage because you are sitting there spamming medica 2 you are a net drain on the raid

A healer, heals, and does dps in downtime. A healers primary role is to heal, better more medica 2 than more resurrect. I see zero issue with a healer making sure their entire group stays up for the encounter.

So they overheal. Who cares? Isnt a player with full health better than one at 10%? Id say it is.

So Supersnow, Ill ask the obvious question "make it harder"...why? To what end?

To achieve what? To accomplish what? To "weed out the unworthy"? "Kick out the bads??"

In short:

What is the exact reason you want this change? What is the purpose and what is the expected result you want?