Genuine Question for Frequent Negative Posters

[Jeeqbit]

I have yet to see any actual proof of there being this hidden alt army.

Then you have not looked closely enough. They are typically a new forum user (made this year) and have a character with all crafters/gatherers leveled and 1 job leveled to 90. They are in a Free Company and are the only person in it, slowly ranking it up and often use the same second name as their main, although not always. Their character appearance is often the same or similar to their main, although not always.

If you don't know why someone would do this, let's just say they could make a lot of gil that way and work out the rest from there.

The accounts with the traits I described tend to make half the topics in this forum (and have for a very long time). Just SE banned a whole lot of them the other day as well as some of their new ones they tried to use in their place.

[Shurrikhan]

Then you have not looked closely enough. They are typically a new forum user (made this year) and have a character with all crafters/gatherers leveled and 1 job leveled to 90. They are in a Free Company and are the only person in it, slowly ranking it up and often use the same second name as their main, although not always. Their character appearance is often the same or similar to their main, although not always.

That, in itself, describes a poster, who has used a series of accounts, not an army.

I.e., the difference between bigamy and serial monogamy.

[Myrany]

Smart boss.



Bro you need to look in the mirror.



This right here is why people mention Atelier's alts. There's nothing inherently wrong with having alts but this guy will say that Eureka/Bozja are boring but he'll play through MSQ a gazillion times.



A normal sprout only has to do the content once, you forced yourself to do it four extra times.

I seriously have 9 characters. None at max though one (my main) is halfway through Shadowbringers. I just love ARR and Heavensward and get the itch to do it again on a different character and figure out better faster smarter ways to go through it. Stormblood is always my hard stop. I made it through it once but I really did not like that expansion. So far I am loving Shadowbringers though.

We all play to do different things. If we didn't have something we enjoyed we wouldn't still be here.

[Iscah]

That, in itself, describes a poster, who has used a series of accounts, not an army.

Why should the term "alt army" not be used to describe a large collection of alt accounts acting as a group and controlled by a single person?

It seems an accurate description to me. It reflects the number of accounts the person is using.

And yes, it is an army, not a series. They appear to have several active at any one time and sometimes stage arguments against themself or post multiple comments in a thread one after the other.

[Shurrikhan]

Why should the term "alt army" not be used to describe a large collection of alt accounts acting as a group and controlled by a single person?

It seems an accurate description to me. It reflects the number of accounts the person is using.

And yes, it is an army, not a series. They appear to have several active at any one time and sometimes stage arguments against themself or post multiple comments in a thread one after the other.

I've yet to see any more than two accounts at a time.

An army would be capable of hijacking threads wholesale and inflating like-counts regardless of public sentiment. His don't. His threads usually see as much activity as they do because they are directly lie near to an already contentious issue, and there are plenty of real posters responding with agreement to his less ironic / pure-bait posts, for the simple fact that they don't happen to be (taken from) rare or spurious positions.

[OdinelStarrei]

I want to preface this by saying this isn't a judgment, but rather genuine curiosity; I'd like to better understand a perspective that is different than my own that I have trouble relating to.

I also want to get ahead of anyone who might want to jump in with a snarky reply to dunk on the posters I'm asking about: please don't. I'm not interested in hearing what you think about frequent negative posters; I'm interested in hearing their own genuine words and thoughts. Please do what you can to avoid turning this thread into a conflict. Thanks in advance for being cool.

Okay, with all that out of the way, I've noticed that the FF14 forums seem to have numerous users who regularly post in ways that suggest that they feel very negatively about the game. I'm not talking about folks who post a thread here and there with criticism of certain aspects of the game; rather, I'm talking about folks who post frequently and almost exclusively have negative things to say about the game.

And that's kind of what I don't get, because at least for me, if I disliked something that much, I would personally want to get away from that thing, rather than expose myself to more of it every day. Which makes me think that I'm probably misunderstanding these posters, or perhaps I'm only seeing one aspect of them that isn't representative of them as a whole.

So here are some questions for frequent negative posters, the answers to which I hope will bridge the gap and help me better understand your perspectives:

Sure, I'll bite. I've been negatively posting since 2019!

• Do you overall dislike the game?
  Yes and no. I like Final Fantasy XIV, in general. I specifically disliked, and now hate Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker.
  • If so:
    • Why do you stick around in the game/forums?
      
      The forums in theory are the only place where I can speak to my concerns about the game state, and have it actually be recorded somewhere for discussion or reference. Reddit is unbearable, 4chan is unhinged, Discord is a stream of consciousness, and Twitter is a cesspit. Even if I enjoy FFXIV, there are several things about it that can be improved, and outside the game itself, there are several things Square Enix can do to make the experience of the players more enjoyable, less divisive, and ensure the next ten years is spent expanding and improving the game, not dismantling it. No king lives forever, but that doesn't mean you poison a perfectly alive king to get the next one in (see: removing things to improve them. Destroying problems, not solving them) Yes, I am well aware the developers most certainly do not listen to the tiny minority, I never positioned myself fighting against that inevitability. I simply wish we could coexist and there was more communication. I also really enjoy reading posts from certain users who have analytical analysis of mechanics or designs.
      When it comes to the game itself, FFXIV is one of the few games out there that I have a very intimate, and almost complete understanding of. The only games that I have more of a grasp are Soulsborne games. Like I said in my previous posts, I am a gameplay focused player, but I also have a love of good, in-depth world building and lore, and possess a deep connection to my personal character. I'm less focused on characters outside of my own, and more focused on how civilizations, bonus points for grounded flawed or collapsing ones, deal with each other and in the wake of crisis, which is why I enjoyed the game in it's more isolated expansions, unless Garlemald was a core antagonist during the plot. Ergo, HW/SB/ShB good, ARR/EW bad, joking, joking. And of course, a class with dark magic and a greatsword, if that combo exists in a game, I am programmed to enjoy it at some level. And sometimes, there is a glimmer of brilliance in the gameplay suite. I stick around seeing if we will ever get back what was taken from us, or if we can exceed even those limits. Basically, I'm a glutton for getting disappointed. Good thing I'm off playing other games these days, this is the first tier I haven't completed since Heavensward!
      
      • Does something about it give you enough joy to be worth your time?
        
        There is a bit of masochism required to enjoy the forums at any point, but the fact that I have continued to play XIV in it's current state despite my preferences towards previous expansions hints towards masochistic tendencies on my behalf anyway. There are legitimate times when the forums have useful, insightful commentary on the current state of the game. You will not find it in General Discussion, because it's been rendered into a No Man's Land between two very different factions of FFXIV players. And to state again, when there's a good, well sourced, informative post on the forums, it's REALLY good, even if it's a bit spicy. Posts like that are few and far between as of late, sadly, there's just no reason to make them with a game this dumbed down and solved, and a community this split and brutal to each other.
        
        For a snarky response, the forums are unironically more engaging than the game itself at this point.
      • Is there something that gives you hope that things will get better, and thus you're not ready to leave just yet?
      • Or something else entirely?
        
        Eh, unsure. There's quite a bit of sunk cost fallacy in there. I have honestly given up on expecting the world from FFXIV, which is a shame, because there was a point where the world was provided to me. That being said, there always remains a bit of intrigue on if they can pull this game back to where I enjoy it with my entire being again, rather than with a laundry list of asterisk points, trade offs, and bitter nostalgia. I do know when it comes to the forums itself, the primary reason I made an account was to give feedback on the Dark Knight rework back during the ShB media tour. It's been a few years since then, and my opinion of the game has only decreased since, but over those years we made a fantastic Dark Knight megathread that may or may not have actually influenced the current state of the job, truly one of the wonders of the NA Tank Roles board, in good and abominable ways. Nowadays, I really just want to gently encourage as many people who are so miserable with the game that it is impacting their overall mental state to take care of themselves. I'm legitimately concerned about things like MMO addiction and sunk cost fallacies. I think there are better games for coping in this disaster of a reality than with a game whose developers who can't be bothered to speak TO us, and not AT us.
  • If not:
    • What do you still enjoy about the game?
      
      
      Joking aside, whenever someone asks me to log in and help them for old time's sake, I think that's fun.
      
      But, I don't think I have enjoyed the game...at all since 6.15, or even earlier. I don't really know, sorry. When I am subbed, it's just force of habit, or some days I just sit AFK in HW/SB/ShB areas and reminisce. There's no real desire there.
      
    • Why the frequent focus on negative aspects?
      
      I speak for myself, primarily, but I also speak for my old free company, my old linkshells, and my countless number of friends who have been absolutely fed up with how this game is right now. Yes, humans have a negativity bias, but over the last few years it's been filled with nothing but static disbands, despair over their gameplay expereince being destroyed, and fury when their complaints are blown off or even worse, marginalized and mischaracterized by people who couldn't be bothered to say anything but "game popular and good, please unsub if complain". If tanks were better, my tank friends probably might come back. If healers were better, my healer friends might come back. If exploration content was in EW, my friends list wouldn't be filled of grey OFFLINE and (Unable to Retrieve). And of course, I'd just be having a better experience for myself.
      
      • Is it just that there's nothing to say about the good parts?
        
        I've had good things to say. I've complimented the developers on their fight design pre-DSR many times. I've complimented the music, the lore (pre-EW), the PvP rework, the decision to adopt many mods into actual in-game systems and numerous amounts of other things. But none of that really matters to me when talking about FFXIV in it's totality, because they have shown no interest in fixing the main, foundational problem for me. Which is, the game is boring to play unless you are bleeding edge. And please note, I have no issue with "easy" or "hard" content. Stardew Valley is one of my favorite games, that's objectively a casual game, but it has plenty of skill expression and min/max potential if you WANT to do that. I do not care about how DIFFICULT a game is. I only care about how FUN and ENGAGING it is, and I'll do the difficulty slider myself. When there are 19 jobs in the game, and ONLY ONE OF THEM can be described as "difficult/high skill ceiling", that's not the game state I want. If the game was always like this post-ShB state, I could've made the choice to not get invested, and to not play the game. The game that I actually liked was ripped away from me.
        
      • Or is it something else?
        
        There is something else. I'm going to quote a post I made a long time ago, because they still resonate with me now, and if anything it's much stronger now. I had another one, where I talked about how people are more concerned with hurting other people and tearing down others than anything, but it seems to have been lost in a deleted thread...
        
        
        

        I wouldn't be negative if I didn't start in mid-Heavensward and see what the developers were capable of, and how they were improving the gameplay each patch/expansion instead of regressing it.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if Square Enix hadn't deliberately ignored years of feedback for the West regarding community conflicts (BA), ping issues that makes jobs unplayable, or haphazard bandaids with overhauls to jobs or systems that no one asked for. (Housing/almost every rework since 4.1)
        
        I wouldn't be negative if there was more upfront transparency in how the game systems work, so I wouldn't be forced too ask around in discord servers and third party websites just to determine what substat tiering is, or what damage type basic attacks are in this game.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if my trust in Square Enix to deliver a compelling gameplay experience(I am playing a video game, after all) wasn't constantly being undermined by absolutely pathetic, braindead normal content, and excruciating savage (door bosses) and ultimate content with zero middle ground or due to the 2 minute burst windows, no room for skill expression outside of rote memorization. With an occasional unreasonable, and frankly, unhealthy grind layered in there somewhere. (Hunt mounts/Pternadon).
        
        I wouldn't be negative if the plot threads that I was a huge fan of in SB and ShB have essentially been written off or totally discarded in Endwalker lieu of void adventures that honestly, should involve Unukalhai, Cylva, and the role quest team on the First, and not the Scions. That is their world to save, and I think Uunukalhai and especially Cylva would do well with a true redemption arc to pull their world back from total destruction. I would've waited until like, 8.0 to see that pan out. Come in as the seasoned veteran and mentor to a new team trying to salvage a shard, in contrast to ARR - SB adventure turning into hero arc that we were used to. I always imagined of the day where I'd be storming the Emperor's throne room with Maxima and the Proletariat, forcing another confrontation with those dual bosses from Ghimlyt, but that room is just a side piece to an elevator that brings you to Anima. I will never get these moments, and it was my folly to even think like that.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if Square Enix's job philosophy did not become "Remove to Improve" and "literally destroy all the skill ceilings" for whatever reason. I played non-meta jobs at points in this games lifetime that have had more originality, more meaningful gameplay choices, and more opportunities to demonstrate class understanding. That is mostly removed now. PLDs, DRGs, and ASTs (again), get comfortable. You're the next jobs to be butchered.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if my preferred side-content, Exploration content, hadn't been removed come Endwalker, with some of those gameplay environments being entirely riddled with bots, something Square Enix also refuses to even try to mitigate by altering the reward structures or introducing methods into the game to stem the flow of the bot apocalypse that is underpinning the game, delegitimizing the economy and ruining Eureka in particular for newer players. The STF is worthless. Island Sanctuary is not battle content, does not allow me to experiment, and therefore I do not find it interesting or engaging even with the limited attention I give it.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if Endwalker's failure to expand on Shadowbringers gameplay and systems like how Stormblood tried to expand on Heavensward didn't happen, and instead extended and doubled down on things a lot of people disagreed with and added more jenga blocks to an already unstable tower. This is not refinement, this is regurgitation. This has lead to my entire old FC pretty much quitting the game, much of my CWLS going dark, and losing connections with people who I have played with, argued with, laughed with, for years, citing that they are no longer happy with the direction of the jobs, or the game itself. My most recent one said " I cannot watch them butcher PLD with the rework like they did with the others. That's not the game I signed up for. This game isn't for me anymore." Smart guy.
        
        Had Dark Knight not get absolutely lobotomized the way that it did, I probably would not find myself on this path of hating the game that has essentially been my home in a world and a life that is destroying itself day after day. Because I'd still be having fun at a fundamental level, instead of logging in and being absolutely dismayed at the state of the game currently, and of it's trajectory.
        
        People will not agree with me, and that's a good thing. They are able to take the game at face value, not integrate themselves too deeply, and enjoy it for what it is, whatever that may be, and not what it was. I cannot see what they see, I am incapable of it now. My memories of late Heavensward through late Stormblood are too bright. Seeing people enjoy FFXIV in it's current state is physically repulsive, and it disgusts me. It is not their fault, it is because I remember when I was also enjoying things, and when I trusted Square Enix to deliver me a compelling gameplay experience. But after years of my hopes being dashed, I can no longer bring myself to trust them. I do not hate CBIII, they do good work mostly, except for the people in the job design team. I do not like them after what they have done to the combat systems.
        
        For those who can remain blissful, I envy them, for I can very rarely harness true enjoyment from this game anymore.
        
        For those who are able to leave, or already have, I envy them. For I cannot. Sunk cost, mental hangups, the works. I put too much investment in trying to get Blood Weapon and Living Dead working properly and clearing content.
        
        I'm tired of seeing people tear each other apart over differing opinions. It doesn't matter. No one is going to change their mind, because people aren't wired to do that once they've been conditioned in their subjective, personal experiences. People are not that self-reflective on average. If someone tells me, "Well, I'm having fun, and so are millions of other people" I just don't get it, because I don't know millions of people. I just know me, and my friends who aren't here anymore. This is not a "wow im so much better than the sheeple" opinion. This is a "My perspective is outright irreconcilable to a sizable portion of people, and it probably works the other way around as well." opinion. "Get some perspective", real interesting hearing that from a forum that constantly refuses to engage in simple empathy for anyone but their own side and sling frequent one-liner gotchas designed to hurt others. "Screw the other side, they're my enemy, hope they are miserable." The lines in the sand have been drawn for a long time.
        
        Yes, I am disappointed in Endwalker.
        No, I don't think there's anything I can ever do about it.
        We can never go home.
        
        
        A final note. I don't think anyone sane wants to be angry and miserable, particularly over this game. Sometimes, deep passion for a hobby looks like that. We want to believe things will change, even though they won't. But I assure you, none of us want to be like this. So I'll end this with what I always say. If you aren't happy, please try to find something that will make you happy. This game cannot give back what it took from us. If you are happy, I'm jealous.
        

[Amenara]

I don't dislike the game per se but I do have some major issues with it. I took a couple of months off from the forums and realistically didn't really play the game for about 5 months over the summer. I think there are bad actors on both sides for sure, but I think the overall message from more negative posters is that they want the game to just be better. I am in the camp that EW was kind of a let down after ShB both in story and gameplay which is why I took time off from it (that and it's been a phenomenal year for game releases). I am hopeful that with the dev team not focusing on the graphics overhaul and Yoshida talking about all of the battle content they want to do in DT that there will seemingly a lot of things to do in DT which I didn't feel like I had to do or even really wanted to do in EW. I am kind of excited to see if we get the jobs I think and want us to have in the next expansion and if we do then I imagine that will make me want to play through there as well.

Just as something to keep in mind, people will shoot for hyperbole a lot in their arguments about the game to overstress a point and get traction with their posts or threads. Most of the time if you weed through it you can find a decent point that is a good topic for discussion. That being said if you ignore the bomb throwing, there can be some good discussion here.

[Sigma5]

tl:dr its a really fun and entertaining casual experience. there are two sides of that coin though if something in a dungeon or raid fails and your first impression is to yell at sprouts or whoever caused it. if so then yes, you should quit. On the other hand though if something fails and you just laugh it off, you enjoy the experience. Just think if yoshi p responded on here with broken english, and followed through. those negative feedback would disappear overnight. Because getting yoshi p to listen and follow through would be like astronauts landing on mars, it would be a groundbreaking event of the century.

[LilimoLimomo]

(the best post i've read on these forums)

I appreciate everyone who has been kind enough to answer my questions and help me understand their perspective a bit more, but I wanted to extend an extra special thanks your way. Your post is so detailed, so thoughtful, and so well-expressed. It was honestly moving to read. Thank you for taking the time to share so many of your thoughts and so much of yourself in such a critical yet wholesome way.

[Caster-LB]

[LIST][*]Do you overall dislike the game?

• If so:
  • Why do you stick around in the game/forums?
    • Does something about it give you enough joy to be worth your time?
    • Is there something that gives you hope that things will get better, and thus you're not ready to leave just yet?
    • Or something else entirely?
      

• • • Not a frequent poster or outright negative but will weigh in anyway
      
      am like a fence sitter
      
      came into FF late in Shb and since then have mostly seen negative changes SMN was my sole DPS job and yeah well it's dead now. Sge came and i was like new healer . . . but then dissapointed to find it was just alternate SCH
      
      Don't have hope that things will get better.
      
      I suppose i just kind adjusted, lower playtime and shifted to other things, i suppose i still find the game relaxing so stick around
      
      do a lot more crafting and such
      
      
      

    • What do you still enjoy about the game?
    • Why the frequent focus on negative aspects?
      • Is it just that there's nothing to say about the good parts?
      • Or is it something else?