How would you rework healer LB1 and 2?

[Katish]

Giving MP to a healer not managing their existing resources is a mood, and the healer should be punished for not using their tools correctly imho. An LB shouldn't be wasted to fix that as it's not adding any real value. (We don't need healers wasting the LB to recover mana, could you imagine? xD) [I could totally see this being a thing with a bad healer where crowd control is an issue but a simple caster, ranged lb could clear it quicker]. Or even worse, on a boss where a melee lb would be preferable more...

If the healer is failing to heal or manage mp, even a full restoration won't probably mean a thing. Something else is going wrong if you're running out of mana that quickly. (Are you spamming heals(?))

As for making it more useful, here's something:
LB 1: Resurrects one target at random to full hp, removes and prevents any applicable death debuff that has or will apply on that target.
LB 2: Resurrects two targets at random to full hp, removes and prevents any applicable death debuff that has or will apply on those targets.
LB 3: Resurrects party to 100% and removes and prevents any applicable death debuffs that has or will apply on the incapacitated party.


(If you're using an extremely limited resource (the limit gauge), I'd argue that the death debuffs removal is okay and actually helps with adding some value back to the role, and in fact I could see a mechanic being tailor-made for this, where only the healers survive but bring back the party to full damage [Thus contributing to their value to the battle] (Think the Healer LB 3 equivalent to a Tank LB 3 in a fight that requires it)

In cases where some unique mechanic does not exist that makes use of that logic, it still has some conditional use if someone dies, although, still requiring someone to die lel. (Though I don't see that as bad, as the healer LB should remain conditional though given the context of it being a healer LB)

I do think LBs should contribute to some value no matter what LB you are at, I mean the tanks' LB and dps' LB do...so it makes since the healer one should also. Just like the tanks it should be conditional, where as a tank you might see them pop the LB early to save themselves in a pull if the dps aren't using it or in a fight to save the remainder of the party. It should be following something similar to that...conditional but when that condition comes about, another tool you should utilize.

[Post]

I'd start by buffing melee, ranged and caster LBs.

They have not actually increased the relative strength of these actions since their implementation in ARR (HW for ranged), and every expansion they increase potencies for jobs normal actions. The result is our current situation, where it's actually often a DPS loss for a melee to execute their LB 1 or 2 and especially so for non melee DPS to single target theirs. Parses not going to players that use it is a player issue and not a balance one, so who cares about that. (Don't balance the game around arbitrary parsing rules)

Ranged should do as much as caster, for starters. It's strictly weaker for no reason even though there's basically only one fight where it's trajectory is superior when it's not already mandatory.

But, LBs were put into the game in a time when:
Direct Hit did not exist
The highest potency single attack was BLM's Flare at a real potency of around 476 (260 on paper)

Only healer lb3 has changed since (doesn't add to weakness/brink of death, and later the range increase), and only LB variance was reduced recently due to TOP.

Because they rarely design bosses with adds anymore (especially while the boss is also attackable), healer lb3 and tank lb are in a much stronger position relative to DPS than when we started.

As for healer lb1 and 2... Yeah they're about the same because 'nothing helpful most of the time' is still less than 'much weaker relatively'. Tank lb2 is still just as strong because it's always been proportional, and it even layers on top of all the party mitigation that exists today.

[VictorSpoils]

(old post)

At the very least, Healer LB1/2 should have a healing percentage buff (25/60 to 40/70) and restore MP by the same amount. LB3 should also restore MP to living party members (it's almost better to die and get revived). The regen/barrier ideas for LB1/2 are nice, potentially working differently with different healers. Allowing them to revive party members would help in giving them more use, and likely wouldn't incentivize raid mechanics as you're limited on uses and still have to deal with enrages, but it would still be hard to balance. They wouldn't be as powerful if they revived people with Brink of Death/Weakness, but that could lead to griefing in Alliance Raids.

So, from most feasible to least:

• LB1/2 get a percentage buff (e.g. 25/60 to 40/70)
• LBs gain a regen/barrier
• LBs remove curable status ailments
• LBs restore MP to living party members
• LB1/2 raise and add a layer of Brink of Death/Weakness
• LB1/2 raise without adding a layer of Brink of Death/Weakness

[Rithy255]

LB system should be reworked

I'd honestly prefer we had a similar LB system to PVP where they're unique to the job and one person using limit break doesn't spend all the LBs, Only issue really is that a lot of old fights tack on Tank or Healer LBs to be used at a certain time, which honestly isn't all too great design wise.

[Icecylee]

If we're strictly talking about changing the LB and the rest of the game staying as is, probably make it instant cast and give MP back, since the only reason anyone would ever be hitting the button to begin with is if they're out of mana in a dungeon where it's really that useful for DPS anyway, and mitigation is already on the tank LB.

[Duskane]

LB 70-80% heal
LB 2 just a aoe rez (will still apply weakness and revive at low HP)

[Emitans]

IDK about putting mits on the healer LB since thats what the tank one is for. But I'd like an up front heal with a strong HoT or something to sustain through continuous damage.

[Raikai]

I wouldn't mind experimenting with something else for the Limit Break system (especially the DPSers), as long as they'd find a way to keep a similar functionality (even if somewhere else that is not the LB itself) of the healer and tank LB3's, the only ones with an actual tactical usage.

Currently, the LB is 'fine', but kind of bland salvo for the stunning visuals.

[Renathras]

...
Thoughts? Ideas?

Hm...offhand?

LB1: Heals party members for ~1/3rd of health and grants them a weakish barrier for ~5% of their max HP (or this can be potency based, whatever); stacks with other barriers. Also restores half the LB gauge on use. (One of the big reasons we don't use LB1 is in most content is because we want to save up for LB3s, so refunding some LB gauge could make this a more useful thing since you often get a full LB3 use and some change for an encounter, so this could still lead to an LB3 use.) ALSO, some way to allow the player to use to use LB1 even if the gauge is more full (same thing; maybe you have 2.5 gauges but you could use effectively half a gauge for some party healing and light mitigation at a key moment).

LB2: Heals party members for ~2/3rds of health and grants them a weakish barrier for ~10% of their max HP, and grants them a Regen of some good potency. (Not sure if a gauge refund on this one or not.)

Oh, and shorten the cast time/animation of both. It's silly long for how pitiful the current effects are.

One thing they won't do but could is put a Reraise on...something. I feel like LB3 should grant a Reraise for a short time (30 or 60 sec) and LB2 could then Raise but to a weakend state (LB3 Raises to full HP and MP, grants Reraise to anyone NOT dead at the time). I feel like there's some ability that works that way in...some game. Maybe...oh, Remnant 2's Medic ultimate, that's it. I think it works that way. Raises if a person is down, gives Reraise if they aren't. But that would be LB3 probably.

.

Right now, 1 is a total waste of a LB gauge since you can easily heal that much with most of your powerful oGCDs or an oGCD plus a GCD. WHM can probably use Plenary Cure 3 or Temperance Medica 2 and get a stronger effect than LB1 (OR LB2, for that matter...). Power creep has made it to where our standard spells are probably as or more powerful (or at least comparable) to the healer LB1/2s at this point.

They need to do more than just heal, and especially LB2 should get people to full health and give some kind of insurance against following damage (so either barriers or HoTs or both). Again, otherwise you can outheal that with just standard healing spells at this point, making them kind of entirely pointless.

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EDIT:

Honestly, it makes me think of the "Nova" system in that Kingdom Hearts mobile game (Union Cross?). Early on, it was this powerful desperation/limit break type attack. But by the end of the game, it was an ABSOLUTE waste of a turn considering even your base attacks did more damage and there were Supernovas and Renovas (refresh your Supernovas for an additional use) and you could chains of these ridiculously powerful attacks and your basic, non-Supernova attacks were more powerful than the Nova attack, which would often do 0 or 1 damage due to enemy armor/defense scaling over the years-long run the game had.

That's how I feel about Healer LB1 and LB2 at this point.

[AnotherPerson]

LB system should be reworked

I'd honestly prefer we had a similar LB system to PVP where they're unique to the job and one person using limit break doesn't spend all the LBs, Only issue really is that a lot of old fights tack on Tank or Healer LBs to be used at a certain time, which honestly isn't all too great design wise.

They could just attach the PvP LB system into the job gauge for PvE as a personal LB1 and LB2. Compared to other jobs, our job gauge is as underdeveloped as it gets with no actual useful updates. The only "updates" to the gauge were long overdue QoL. We had to fight to get DPS neutral skills like Afflatus Misery and to a lesser extent, Toxikon, but even then those skills aren't really that much of a gamechanger. Afflatus Misery only made the gauge viable and Toxikon really doesn't give much of an advantage since it can't be generated normally. The whole development of the gauge could be summarized to nothing substantial other than some low cooldown healing skills that doesn't interact with your toolkit at all.