The Healer DPS Problem, The Toxicity it incites

[ASkellington]

Easy solution:
Leave tank personal sustain alone, decrease their group healing and mitigation
Add cleaves and really nasty unavoidable AoE damage to more enemies
Add reasonable but tight enrage timers to bosses

There. Now the tank can't sustain the entire party, everybody is screwed if the DPS are bad, healers are forced to heal, and nobody gets screwed out of their enjoyment of their job.

WAR's personal sustain is still needing a nerf. They straight up invalidate a healer in dungeons, and frankly I don't care if their sustain is fine in raids. Their raid sustain isn't the issue. Their dungeon one is.

GNB I'll also say is an issue. I can STILL solo a boss with 2 charges of aurora and HoC. PLD at least has the drawback of needing to use MP and DRK... DRK actually could use a bit more but its... fine. RN.

WAR's sustain needs more of a draw back than "every 40s" recast and I could argue the same with GNB. Probably make it so that HoC doesn't auto heal you if you're below half... cause yeah I have done that. It should require damage being dealt to do it.

[LilimoLimomo]

If people are dying and it's because the healers aren't healing, then yeah, the healers should be healing more, I agree.

But if the healers aren't healing and everyone's still surviving, then I wouldn't say the healers are doing anything wrong per se.

[Absimiliard]

WAR's personal sustain is still needing a nerf. They straight up invalidate a healer in dungeons, and frankly I don't care if their sustain is fine in raids. Their raid sustain isn't the issue. Their dungeon one is.

GNB I'll also say is an issue. I can STILL solo a boss with 2 charges of aurora and HoC. PLD at least has the drawback of needing to use MP and DRK... DRK actually could use a bit more but its... fine. RN.

WAR's sustain needs more of a draw back than "every 40s" recast and I could argue the same with GNB. Probably make it so that HoC doesn't auto heal you if you're below half... cause yeah I have done that. It should require damage being dealt to do it.

Tanks being able to solo inconsequential bosses is a thing in most MMOs, y'know. It's completely normal. It also goes completely out the window if, as I mentioned in my prior post, enrage timers become a thing again.

Healers need something to do besides hit their one DPS button. That much, I agree with. What they're healing doesn't have to be the tank, however. There are plenty of other people in a group the game could start directing more damage to. Heck, that's another thing common across most MMOs now. Tanks in general just tend to not need as much healing attention as the healers/DPS outside of tankbusters and specific, and it should stay that way.

[Payadopa]

So we can finally watch Netflix during the dungeon and press a Cure 2 every 30 seconds guilt-free. Now THIS is peak gameplay.

No, it would exacerbate the problem and force SE's hand, while also nipping that stupid healers should DPS thing in the bud. Healers DPS because they are bored, not because they want to.

[ZephyrMenodora]

No, it would exacerbate the problem and force SE's hand, while also nipping that stupid healers should DPS thing in the bud. Healers DPS because they are bored, not because they want to.

I think you will get mixed results. Some are so used to healers being half-dps and they really enjoy this part of them. It's kind of like in other games where some healer classes did damage in downtime.

I personally liked more complex and challenging healing, status effect management, debuff applications and cc that other MMOs gave healer classes, but FFXIV combat just isn't that complex overall to give us more meaningful activities.

[Koros]

I still remember coming to the game and not knowing that an oGCD could be used at the same time as GCDs in weaves until SB (started playing in ARR)

holy moly what a self out

[ZephyrMenodora]

holy moly what a self out

LOL. Seriously only takes casting them once and seeing that your other skills don't go on the GCD to realize that.

[Absurdity]

It's kind of like in other games where some healer classes did damage in downtime.

Like the quintessential healer, the D&D cleric, who probably spends more time hitting things with a mace than actually healing?

[IDontPetLalas]

Tanks being able to solo inconsequential bosses is a thing in most MMOs, y'know. It's completely normal. It also goes completely out the window if, as I mentioned in my prior post, enrage timers become a thing again.

Healers need something to do besides hit their one DPS button. That much, I agree with. What they're healing doesn't have to be the tank, however. There are plenty of other people in a group the game could start directing more damage to. Heck, that's another thing common across most MMOs now. Tanks in general just tend to not need as much healing attention as the healers/DPS outside of tankbusters and specific, and it should stay that way.

If we we limiting this discussion to tanks soloing ARR bosses, most people would likely agree that those bosses are "inconsequential" however when we're talking about endgame dungeons? No- I would disagree. Your statement regarding how this is common across 'most MMOs" is rather surprising as well- which ones are you thinking of, as this definitely isn't common to the ones I've played in the past.

So there are a number of options , I can understand why you would prefer one over the other. Fundamentally however there should be some recognition that each role relies on each other and that one of the options on the table could increase healing requirements on tanks outside of TBs. Or it could be damage/debuffs to the party members, a little creativity from SE would be welcome (time for a new Doom maybe)

[IDontPetLalas]

I think you will get mixed results. Some are so used to healers being half-dps and they really enjoy this part of them. It's kind of like in other games where some healer classes did damage in downtime.

I personally liked more complex and challenging healing, status effect management, debuff applications and cc that other MMOs gave healer classes, but FFXIV combat just isn't that complex overall to give us more meaningful activities.

It's more the norm in all the games where's I've played a healer to have DPS options- depending upon the content and the party composition , going as full heal, hybrid heal/DPS, or even full DPS could be options, with a good, geared healer DPS in one game being equivalent to about 90% of the best caster DPS.

I personally like being able to juggle both healing and DPSing, and would find FFXIV more interesting if they threw in more status effect management and CC during combat as you say. I find that much more interesting that "dodge an AOE- dodge THIS AOE. No- THAT AOE, you lagged . " repeat the dance ad nauseum, and faster. Congratulations, you've mastered the fight.