The Healer DPS Problem, The Toxicity it incites

[Renathras]

The Healer DPS Problem: Toxicity it incites

Y'know, I'm not even going to beat around the bush with this. The title says everything, I'm sitting here doing a dungeon and a healer refuses to even use their off GCD abilities.

Sure the tank was a gunbreaker but that's not an excuse for the healer not to fill the role they chose, this is what brings me to the forums today. Not just for this run, but to address what I feel is becoming a MAJOR problem.

In FFXIV we have all sorts of jobs that fill multiple roles, Tanks/Healers/DPS. Y'know, the "holy trinity" as it were.

All jobs have a little bit of the other roles stuff, healing, dps, etc. Having mitigations and heals on DPS, having DPS and mitigations on healers, having heals and DPS on tanks.

But where the problem comes in? Is when people see the .01% players parses and think "Oh that's all that should be needed."

I legitimately had a combat mentor in the novice network tell me ahem.. "Tank's don't need a healer to even clear ultimate content."

To which I say, congrats I guess? Because that doesn't speak for the average player, the average individual isn't gonna be some person who picks the best of the best tank and gets BiS gear, running only the hardest content you can get into, topping the charts, etc.

No, the average player wants to sit here and enjoy the game. The toxic mentality of "Healers shouldn't have to heal." is a plague that needs to go away.

Well said.

[TheNight]

I think they learned a lesson as early as back in Heavensward that making 'regular' content too difficult will not breed better players, it will breed sudden, extreme and vocal pushback against it, and since then didn't try that one again, despite circumstances changing quite a lot by modern day.

Actually, it did breed better players. The vocal minority pushed back and yet the game did fine. The problem was actually with the high end content being too much of a difficulty spike.

So no, you're wrong.

[Darkmoonrise]

The Healer DPS Problem: Toxicity it incites

Y'know, I'm not even going to beat around the bush with this. The title says everything, I'm sitting here doing a dungeon and a healer refuses to even use their off GCD abilities.

Sure the tank was a gunbreaker but that's not an excuse for the healer not to fill the role they chose, this is what brings me to the forums today. Not just for this run, but to address what I feel is becoming a MAJOR problem.

In FFXIV we have all sorts of jobs that fill multiple roles, Tanks/Healers/DPS. Y'know, the "holy trinity" as it were.

All jobs have a little bit of the other roles stuff, healing, dps, etc. Having mitigations and heals on DPS, having DPS and mitigations on healers, having heals and DPS on tanks.

But where the problem comes in? Is when people see the .01% players parses and think "Oh that's all that should be needed."

I legitimately had a combat mentor in the novice network tell me ahem.. "Tank's don't need a healer to even clear ultimate content."

To which I say, congrats I guess? Because that doesn't speak for the average player, the average individual isn't gonna be some person who picks the best of the best tank and gets BiS gear, running only the hardest content you can get into, topping the charts, etc.

No, the average player wants to sit here and enjoy the game. The toxic mentality of "Healers shouldn't have to heal." is a plague that needs to go away.

Nobody says : "Healers shouldn't have to heal", what we say is : "Healers should use DPS gcd when ogcd heals are enough to keep the party alive" which represents 90% of the encounters in this game.

There are bad players in both ends of the spectrum : healers which never DPS and healers which never heal. You just encountered the former.

[Amnmaat]

Any toxicity in chat is covered by the TOS; I used the report system a lot during Heavensward, it cleared out the toxic people very quick. That's one thing I'll praise ffxiv about, the in game reporting of bad behavior is very effective.

Like TheNight said; let's not use "toxicity" as a shield, clearly the game's designed to prevent that.

The way we get better healers is by creating content that challenges them to have to use more of their healing skills, so they actually learn how to become good healers. Right now I can cast cure II the entire dungeon while I exercise in real life and I'd be fine.

[Jeeqbit]

I heal Mentor Roulette a lot and I usually don't use any GCD heals except to shield them between fights. I don't use it in fights much if at all.

This is completely fine provided the person isn't going to die or doesn't die. Obviously if they die then maybe just GCD heal because something went wrong, such as the tank being too undergeared to not use GCD heals.

I agree that just because someone managed a high-end content clear without a healer doesn't necessarily mean the average person should or will do that, but I suspect their argument with you was using that to make a point about it not mattering in a dungeon.

[ThaCa]

The lack of randomness is damage taken is what makes both Tanks and Healers into lousy DPS. You only really get to play Healer when people make a lot of mistakes.

[Zeastria]

In Endgame content ( some EX/Savage/Ultimates) there is a heal DPS check...
and the minimum expected dps you should do as a healer is 15%.. ( due to enrage).
I blame the game design to push that mentality.
in Casual/Normal content none of this really matters..it will just make fight faster/skip stuff.

[Banriikku]

The Healer DPS Problem: Toxicity it incites

Y'know, I'm not even going to beat around the bush with this. The title says everything, I'm sitting here doing a dungeon and a healer refuses to even use their off GCD abilities.

Sure the tank was a gunbreaker but that's not an excuse for the healer not to fill the role they chose, this is what brings me to the forums today. Not just for this run, but to address what I feel is becoming a MAJOR problem.

In FFXIV we have all sorts of jobs that fill multiple roles, Tanks/Healers/DPS. Y'know, the "holy trinity" as it were.

All jobs have a little bit of the other roles stuff, healing, dps, etc. Having mitigations and heals on DPS, having DPS and mitigations on healers, having heals and DPS on tanks.

But where the problem comes in? Is when people see the .01% players parses and think "Oh that's all that should be needed."

I legitimately had a combat mentor in the novice network tell me ahem.. "Tank's don't need a healer to even clear ultimate content."

To which I say, congrats I guess? Because that doesn't speak for the average player, the average individual isn't gonna be some person who picks the best of the best tank and gets BiS gear, running only the hardest content you can get into, topping the charts, etc.

No, the average player wants to sit here and enjoy the game. The toxic mentality of "Healers shouldn't have to heal." is a plague that needs to go away.

Intresting thought but i think you came to some twisted conclusions.
First the mentality of "healer shoudn't heal" does not even exist in the first place. People that say these two things disqualify themself from this discussion and all disskusssion regarding healers:

1. Healers should only heal
2. Healers are DPS and almost never heal

These people are uninformed and very bad at the game or just trolls or both.
Now to what really is there and how you should play and WHY this is not toxic.
First you should play healer pro-activ and re-activ depending on centent and choosen healer. As a healer youre main task is "keep the party alive" after this DPS as much as you can without forgetting the first task BUT NEVER BE IDLE. Thats it. People who argue against this or try to twist this to something toxic just want a " i do nothing but get the reward"-Pass. The APM of FF14 is not that high or complex to justify a only heal or a only dps healer.

If you wanna play a game with more and faster rewards and less input from you as a player, than i recommend something diffrent from FF14 altogether. Nowhere in this "way of playing " is something toxic or negative. Almost as if this is blown out of proportion.... like the thing with the "content creator".

And now to the point why is there more "bad healer's" ? Simple the role has almost no skill ceiling anymore whats so ever and can be played while ACTIVLY WATCHING A MOVIE or reading a book.... heck....writing one, while healing is a possiblity.
This resulted in "easy roulette" aka the "fast pop" by people that don't care and are most of the time not even aware of how the class works or what it does.

The fault is at Yoshida in my opinion and for that reason i think that man should make single player games and stay clear from FF14.

Now to the behavior of people that say:
"..but FFLOGS..." or "Balance Discord said so"
Do you read ??? English do you read it ?
Because this is for SAVAGE AND ULTIMATE not Expert roulette or Alliance raids and the likes. And even then, you need to look out for youre tank and co-healer and the encounter.

This behavior will happen even if this game is to be "candy crushed" and made so simple even a Goldfish can play it. Even than, there will be a "Meta" and people with a gamesense of a peble. So youre conclusion is not only far feteched but also without proof of the existence of said mentality. Some players are just little dirty Kuponuts and deserve to be "Manderville'd".

[Connor]

Considering content is literally designed for healers to not be healing, it’s not hard to see some people saying ‘let’s just play this so I can spam one (maybe 2 if they’re feeling particularly productive) dps ability the entire dungeon and get 3 comms for exceptional contribution’. I mean, it’s fairly easy to evidence too lol. Go into any fight and do high healing but mid/low dps, you’re going to get heavy side-eye from your party and 0 comms. Do absolute minimal healing but high dps? 7 comms you win healers lol. You could solo heal an an entire party of new players through difficult content and carry them across the finish line, and you’re still going to be labelled a shit healer if you don’t maximise dps the entire time. And ultimately, why wouldn’t you maximise dps and just ignore healing? Maximising healing is literally just a case of pressing of pressing one of many, many, many buttons lol.

You can very easily get through an entire dungeon without touching a single heal if you have the right tank, and even if you do need a heal you can just smash one of the many, many, many overwhelmingly powerful oGCD heals to get like the majority of their health back at once.

Honestly I could see them making healers like Bard where the ancillary role (healing/support) becomes entirely automated as part of the main role (dps). Like, healers will just spam the ever-loving fuck out of their one dps spell and every time they do it’ll put the party back to full health. And the worst part? I honestly think a large amount of players would praise such a design.

Truthfully, I don’t even think some players want healers to be healing; they essentially want them to be dps with some extra healing OGCDs cooldowns (nothing that will EVER interrupt their precious dps, of course).

Then you’ve got the even more depressing fact that the game is literally designed for healers to be this way anyway . The devs just refuse to actually make healers full dps with some healing oGCDs because I guess they’d have to admit the last 5-6 years of healer design was just a massive failure lol, and they can’t be having that

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Are you saying I have to do more as a healer than just making sure the Duty Finder queue pops?

/s