The Healer DPS Problem, The Toxicity it incites

[Derio]

WAR pretty much set the dungeon standard. If you are a healer and you have a warrior in your party you wont do a single GCD heal for them or even a OGCD heal for them because their self healing is that strong.

[ZephyrMenodora]

WAR pretty much set the dungeon standard. If you are a healer and you have a warrior in your party you wont do a single GCD heal for them or even a OGCD heal for them because their self healing is that strong.

It's so bad from a Healer POV that I forgot I sometimes have to heal at times lol.

[Semirhage]

Oh are we pretending that healers who deal damage because it's the thing that skilled healers do and is intrinsic to their skill ceiling and healers that deal damage and forget to heal because they're terrible at healing are the same people again?

Never change, FFXIV community. HeALeRs shOULd hEaL onLy, yet again, every time, from people who don't play healers and aren't interested in their gameplay loop. Or from people who *do* play healers and aren't particularly skilled at them, so they like to project their lack of skill onto people who are actually good at healing, because someone maximizing their throughput and occasionally slipping up is totally worse at the game than Sylphie Curespammer. :eyeroll:

[ZephyrMenodora]

Oh are we pretending that healers who deal damage because it's the thing that skilled healers do and is intrinsic to their skill ceiling and healers that deal damage and forget to heal because they're terrible at healing are the same people again?

Never change, FFXIV community. HeALeRs shOULd hEaL onLy, yet again, every time, from people who don't play healers and aren't interested in their gameplay loop. Or from people who *do* play healers and aren't particularly skilled at them, so they like to project their lack of skill onto people who are actually good at healing, because someone maximizing their throughput and occasionally slipping up is totally worse at the game than Sylphie Curespammer. :eyeroll:

As someone who just posted above you that I at times (rarely) forget to heal - it's not because of a lack of skill. It's just because after glare-botting for 20 minutes I'm so disinterested in the encounter design and what I'm doing as a healer I get zoned out. Usually a benediction when this happens is fine.

Healing in XIV is unfortunately a shadow of how fun it could be.

[IDontPetLalas]

Unfortunately OP, when I read through your post, I had to wonder if the toxicity in question isn't actually being generated more by your post, certainly by its title and the response you likely expected to generate as a consequence - and not by its content?


Y'know, I'm not even going to beat around the bush with this. The title says everything, I'm sitting here doing a dungeon and a healer refuses to even use their off GCD abilities. To be clear, this was a single experience? Did anyone talk to them? Was anyone dying? Did the group wipe? Did anyone offer to help them?

Sure the tank was a gunbreaker but that's not an excuse for the healer not to fill the role they chose, this is what brings me to the forums today. Not just for this run, but to address what I feel is becoming a MAJOR problem.

In FFXIV we have all sorts of jobs that fill multiple roles, Tanks/Healers/DPS. Y'know, the "holy trinity" as it were.

All jobs have a little bit of the other roles stuff, healing, dps, etc. Having mitigations and heals on DPS, having DPS and mitigations on healers, having heals and DPS on tanks.

But where the problem comes in? Is when people see the .01% players parses and think "Oh that's all that should be needed." Aren't you making an assumption here, or is there something you aren't telling us, because I don't see where this is coming from a single healer?

I legitimately had a combat mentor in the novice network tell me ahem.. "Tank's don't need a healer to even clear ultimate content." Technically, that's true, it has been done- so how would this be toxic? I don't understand this at all, you've lost me here.

To which I say, congrats I guess? Because that doesn't speak for the average player, the average individual isn't gonna be some person who picks the best of the best tank and gets BiS gear, running only the hardest content you can get into, topping the charts, etc. How did we go from a healer who wasn't using their OGCD heals to a BiS tank ( by the way a sizable percentage of the player population does Extreme content and harder, often on more than one job). Again I don't see where any toxicity is involved here.

No, the average player wants to sit here and enjoy the game. The toxic mentality of "Healers shouldn't have to heal." is a plague that needs to go away. I'm sorry, perhaps you thought this last line was some definitive argument but every player wants to enjoy the game, I doubt you will find anyone to disagree with you- nothing new to see here. I also would dispute the "healers shouldn't have to heal" statement- you've provided nothing to go on except what could (possibly) be a new healer/someone's alt or (we don't know). Do healers make mistakes? Sure they do, and if they are fortunate someone is able to provide much more constructive feedback so that they are willing to join as a better healer in future.

[Sebazy]

Y'know, I'm not even going to beat around the bush with this. The title says everything, I'm sitting here doing a dungeon and a healer refuses to even use their off GCD abilities.

If the healer wasn't using their off GCD abilities, that's a skill issue, not a DPS issue.

A healer that is actually efficiently maximising their damage is going to be using MORE oGCDs, not less. There's absolutely zero need to take any risks with a tank's HP in measly dungeon content to get a 90%+ log. Don't get the two issues confused here. That healer was just bad.

Perhaps this would be less of a problem if 'healing' in dungeons actually needed healers to pay some attention to the screen rather than just mindlessly doing the same s**t pull after a pull.

[Absimiliard]

ay what you want about Dark knight and Blackest night, but that's how tanking in xiv should work, outside of tank mechanics like Blackest night tanks should be squishy. Outside of Bloodwhetting War should be taking a pummeling, make those damn healers heal, protect, and take care of them outside of it.

I.... what? Bro, tanks that don't use their cooldowns right get absolutely stomped into the ground already. Besides that, being squishy as a tank is decidedly unfun. Why do you think their numbers dropped off after their survivability took that huge hit? Targeting tanks with nerfs is not the way to make the game engaging for healers. There are plenty of other options available that won't result in another tank shortage.

[IDontPetLalas]

I.... what? Bro, tanks that don't use their cooldowns right get absolutely stomped into the ground already. Besides that, being squishy as a tank is decidedly unfun. Why do you think their numbers dropped off after their survivability took that huge hit? Targeting tanks with nerfs is not the way to make the game engaging for healers. There are plenty of other options available that won't result in another tank shortage.

I would like you to consider the flip side of the coin - lying dead on the ground while your party continues the without you, the healer because you died to a mechanic, but they don't really need you. Or forms a party but asks you to join as a DPS because a 'healer will only slow this down" and you have to agree that they're right- but really - you would prefer to heal and DPS- NOT have the tank do it for you.

Now, you may say that I'm exaggerating, perhaps so. However I would say that the game has way overcompensated for the 'squishy tank" issue. The time is over due to look at the other options that allow all roles to have an engaging experience, and part of that for me means that each role will have to rely to some degree (depending on difficulty perhaps) on the other roles in group content. No one role should carry, no one role should be excluded from content design.

[ASkellington]

I would like you to consider the flip side of the coin - lying dead on the ground while your party continues the without you, the healer because you died to a mechanic, but they don't really need you. Or forms a party but asks you to join as a DPS because a 'healer will only slow this down" and you have to agree that they're right- but really - you would prefer to heal and DPS- NOT have the tank do it for you.

Now, you may say that I'm exaggerating, perhaps so. However I would say that the game has way overcompensated for the 'squishy tank" issue. The time is over due to look at the other options that allow all roles to have an engaging experience, and part of that for me means that each role will have to rely to some degree (depending on difficulty perhaps) on the other roles in group content. No one role should carry, no one role should be excluded from content design.

Its not an exaggeration when you can 100% complete any EW boss fight without a healer.

WAR can 100% do it 0 problems.
Pretty sure PLD can.
I KNOW GNB can cause I've done it, and I've even done it on Shb bosses.
DRK is the only iffy one and even then I think they could do it.

Tanks should have decent survivability, yes. They shouldn't straight up invalidate a role with it.

[Miracle_Diva]

Oh are we pretending that healers who deal damage because it's the thing that skilled healers do and is intrinsic to their skill ceiling and healers that deal damage and forget to heal because they're terrible at healing are the same people again?

Never change, FFXIV community. HeALeRs shOULd hEaL onLy, yet again, every time, from people who don't play healers and aren't interested in their gameplay loop. Or from people who *do* play healers and aren't particularly skilled at them, so they like to project their lack of skill onto people who are actually good at healing, because someone maximizing their throughput and occasionally slipping up is totally worse at the game than Sylphie Curespammer. :eyeroll: