The Healer DPS Problem, The Toxicity it incites

[Xuled]

Actually, it did breed better players. The vocal minority pushed back and yet the game did fine. The problem was actually with the high end content being too much of a difficulty spike.

So no, you're wrong.

Absolutely wrong. HW almost killed this game’s raiding scene and honestly it wasn’t that difficult when compared to other MMO’s first expansion pack raids.

This community has always had an issue with “gitting gud” and they would rather throw a fuss, complain and use this line about “the MSQ is why people play blah blah”. Irrelevant. Nobody parses MSQ. Savage and Ultimate are the real meat and taters of this game and boy, do you ever see how truly awful people are at gaming.

Final point, for the lulz, nobody cares about MSQ difficulty and yet SE added a “very easy” which is still too hard for people (check the forums a few months back for someone struggling on the MSQ Onsal fight). LOLGCBTW

[Absimiliard]

Absolutely wrong. HW almost killed this game’s raiding scene and honestly it wasn’t that difficult when compared to other MMO’s first expansion pack raids.

It wasn'tjust the mechanics (and people not doing them) that screwed things up in HW, it was the math (at least early on). Most of those fights were reasonable mechanically, for their time. Right out of the gate we had A3S and A4S being so hilariously overtuned because SE was still mad Bahamut Prime died so fast. Even then, those fights were okay mechanically. The numbers were just tuned way higher than what was reasonable. Those two bosses killed a lot of statics.

[Absurdity]

It wasn'tjust the mechanics (and people not doing them) that screwed things up in HW, it was the math (at least early on). Most of those fights were reasonable mechanically, for their time. Right out of the gate we had A3S and A4S being so hilariously overtuned because SE was still mad Bahamut Prime died so fast. Even then, those fights were okay mechanically. The numbers were just tuned way higher than what was reasonable. Those two bosses killed a lot of statics.

That's partially also down to the playerbase at the time, you still had healers never pressing a dps spell and tanks stacking parry. Those were people that raided Coils just fine and they stepped into Gordias savage with the same attitude.

But when you put those players into fights that actually required everyone to contribute to not hitting enrage of course they would fall flat on their faces.

[Supersnow845]

Absolutely wrong. HW almost killed this game’s raiding scene and honestly it wasn’t that difficult when compared to other MMO’s first expansion pack raids.

This community has always had an issue with “gitting gud” and they would rather throw a fuss, complain and use this line about “the MSQ is why people play blah blah”. Irrelevant. Nobody parses MSQ. Savage and Ultimate are the real meat and taters of this game and boy, do you ever see how truly awful people are at gaming.

Final point, for the lulz, nobody cares about MSQ difficulty and yet SE added a “very easy” which is still too hard for people (check the forums a few months back for someone struggling on the MSQ Onsal fight). LOLGCBTW

It killed the raiding scene because while HW itself wasn’t hard Gordias was mathematically impossible week 1 and A2 and A4 were just garbage fights in general

[Darkmoonrise]

The Healer DPS Problem: Toxicity it incites

Y'know, I'm not even going to beat around the bush with this. The title says everything, I'm sitting here doing a dungeon and a healer refuses to even use their off GCD abilities.

Sure the tank was a gunbreaker but that's not an excuse for the healer not to fill the role they chose, this is what brings me to the forums today. Not just for this run, but to address what I feel is becoming a MAJOR problem.

In FFXIV we have all sorts of jobs that fill multiple roles, Tanks/Healers/DPS. Y'know, the "holy trinity" as it were.

All jobs have a little bit of the other roles stuff, healing, dps, etc. Having mitigations and heals on DPS, having DPS and mitigations on healers, having heals and DPS on tanks.

But where the problem comes in? Is when people see the .01% players parses and think "Oh that's all that should be needed."

I legitimately had a combat mentor in the novice network tell me ahem.. "Tank's don't need a healer to even clear ultimate content."

To which I say, congrats I guess? Because that doesn't speak for the average player, the average individual isn't gonna be some person who picks the best of the best tank and gets BiS gear, running only the hardest content you can get into, topping the charts, etc.

No, the average player wants to sit here and enjoy the game. The toxic mentality of "Healers shouldn't have to heal." is a plague that needs to go away.

Nobody says : "Healers shouldn't have to heal", what we say is : "Healers should use DPS gcd when ogcd heals are enough to keep the party alive" which represents 90% of the encounters in this game.

There are bad players in both ends of the spectrum : healers which never DPS and healers which never heal. You just encountered the former.

[Amnmaat]

Any toxicity in chat is covered by the TOS; I used the report system a lot during Heavensward, it cleared out the toxic people very quick. That's one thing I'll praise ffxiv about, the in game reporting of bad behavior is very effective.

Like TheNight said; let's not use "toxicity" as a shield, clearly the game's designed to prevent that.

The way we get better healers is by creating content that challenges them to have to use more of their healing skills, so they actually learn how to become good healers. Right now I can cast cure II the entire dungeon while I exercise in real life and I'd be fine.

[Jeeqbit]

I heal Mentor Roulette a lot and I usually don't use any GCD heals except to shield them between fights. I don't use it in fights much if at all.

This is completely fine provided the person isn't going to die or doesn't die. Obviously if they die then maybe just GCD heal because something went wrong, such as the tank being too undergeared to not use GCD heals.

I agree that just because someone managed a high-end content clear without a healer doesn't necessarily mean the average person should or will do that, but I suspect their argument with you was using that to make a point about it not mattering in a dungeon.

[ThaCa]

The lack of randomness is damage taken is what makes both Tanks and Healers into lousy DPS. You only really get to play Healer when people make a lot of mistakes.

[Zeastria]

In Endgame content ( some EX/Savage/Ultimates) there is a heal DPS check...
and the minimum expected dps you should do as a healer is 15%.. ( due to enrage).
I blame the game design to push that mentality.
in Casual/Normal content none of this really matters..it will just make fight faster/skip stuff.

[Banriikku]

The Healer DPS Problem: Toxicity it incites

Y'know, I'm not even going to beat around the bush with this. The title says everything, I'm sitting here doing a dungeon and a healer refuses to even use their off GCD abilities.

Sure the tank was a gunbreaker but that's not an excuse for the healer not to fill the role they chose, this is what brings me to the forums today. Not just for this run, but to address what I feel is becoming a MAJOR problem.

In FFXIV we have all sorts of jobs that fill multiple roles, Tanks/Healers/DPS. Y'know, the "holy trinity" as it were.

All jobs have a little bit of the other roles stuff, healing, dps, etc. Having mitigations and heals on DPS, having DPS and mitigations on healers, having heals and DPS on tanks.

But where the problem comes in? Is when people see the .01% players parses and think "Oh that's all that should be needed."

I legitimately had a combat mentor in the novice network tell me ahem.. "Tank's don't need a healer to even clear ultimate content."

To which I say, congrats I guess? Because that doesn't speak for the average player, the average individual isn't gonna be some person who picks the best of the best tank and gets BiS gear, running only the hardest content you can get into, topping the charts, etc.

No, the average player wants to sit here and enjoy the game. The toxic mentality of "Healers shouldn't have to heal." is a plague that needs to go away.

Intresting thought but i think you came to some twisted conclusions.
First the mentality of "healer shoudn't heal" does not even exist in the first place. People that say these two things disqualify themself from this discussion and all disskusssion regarding healers:

1. Healers should only heal
2. Healers are DPS and almost never heal

These people are uninformed and very bad at the game or just trolls or both.
Now to what really is there and how you should play and WHY this is not toxic.
First you should play healer pro-activ and re-activ depending on centent and choosen healer. As a healer youre main task is "keep the party alive" after this DPS as much as you can without forgetting the first task BUT NEVER BE IDLE. Thats it. People who argue against this or try to twist this to something toxic just want a " i do nothing but get the reward"-Pass. The APM of FF14 is not that high or complex to justify a only heal or a only dps healer.

If you wanna play a game with more and faster rewards and less input from you as a player, than i recommend something diffrent from FF14 altogether. Nowhere in this "way of playing " is something toxic or negative. Almost as if this is blown out of proportion.... like the thing with the "content creator".

And now to the point why is there more "bad healer's" ? Simple the role has almost no skill ceiling anymore whats so ever and can be played while ACTIVLY WATCHING A MOVIE or reading a book.... heck....writing one, while healing is a possiblity.
This resulted in "easy roulette" aka the "fast pop" by people that don't care and are most of the time not even aware of how the class works or what it does.

The fault is at Yoshida in my opinion and for that reason i think that man should make single player games and stay clear from FF14.

Now to the behavior of people that say:
"..but FFLOGS..." or "Balance Discord said so"
Do you read ??? English do you read it ?
Because this is for SAVAGE AND ULTIMATE not Expert roulette or Alliance raids and the likes. And even then, you need to look out for youre tank and co-healer and the encounter.

This behavior will happen even if this game is to be "candy crushed" and made so simple even a Goldfish can play it. Even than, there will be a "Meta" and people with a gamesense of a peble. So youre conclusion is not only far feteched but also without proof of the existence of said mentality. Some players are just little dirty Kuponuts and deserve to be "Manderville'd".