The Healer DPS Problem, The Toxicity it incites

[Amnmaat]

Tanks being made squishy also resulted in a massive drop off in the number of people willing to play them. Every role should be fun, yeah? Well, being a tank that isn't remotely capable of self-sustaining isn't fun for a lot of people. It would behoove them to look for solutions that don't involve nerfing tanks, like maybe starting with an increase to outgoing group/raid-wide damage so that everyone requires more healing to stay alive.

I like Guild Wars 2's solution; enemies and bosses in that game target whoever it wants, while the "tank" specs can still keep the boss focused on them, but not indefinitely. Also, in GW2 tanks are not these sponges which the boss can't break through.

GW2 handles it how square enix tried to handle it at start of Stormblood; make the tanks squishy. Tanks laugh at damage in most situations. Tank busters? More like tank tickle. Until we're willing to bring tanks down from being sponges and create a better mechanical dynamic with them they will all be boring 123 to fell cleave clones. The fact that all tanks have to do in xiv is press 1 button to shield themselves is laughable. Say what you want about Dark knight and Blackest night, but that's how tanking in xiv should work, outside of tank mechanics like Blackest night tanks should be squishy. Outside of Bloodwhetting War should be taking a pummeling, make those damn healers heal, protect, and take care of them outside of it.

[Absimiliard]

ay what you want about Dark knight and Blackest night, but that's how tanking in xiv should work, outside of tank mechanics like Blackest night tanks should be squishy. Outside of Bloodwhetting War should be taking a pummeling, make those damn healers heal, protect, and take care of them outside of it.

I.... what? Bro, tanks that don't use their cooldowns right get absolutely stomped into the ground already. Besides that, being squishy as a tank is decidedly unfun. Why do you think their numbers dropped off after their survivability took that huge hit? Targeting tanks with nerfs is not the way to make the game engaging for healers. There are plenty of other options available that won't result in another tank shortage.

[Lunalepsy]

Abandon the holy trinity!

[Tint]

Abandon the holy trinity!

Either that or go all in on it. This weird inbetween has overstayed long enough. The devs need to take a direction and stick with it.

[Absurdity]

I'm sitting here doing a dungeon and a healer refuses to even use their off GCD abilities.

Healers not using oGCD heals is also not a healer dps problem.
Not using your completely consequence-free healing that can be weaved between wearing out your 1 key isn't a healer dps problem, it's a "being bad at the game" problem.


Those people have existed since this game's inception and you will never get rid of them, especially not when the job design team caters to exactly the kind of people that never want to improve and will never improve.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

Healers not using oGCD heals is also not a healer dps problem.
Not using your completely consequence-free healing that can be weaved between wearing out your 1 key isn't a healer dps problem, it's a "being bad at the game" problem.


Those people have existed since this game's inception and you will never get rid of them, especially not when the job design team caters to exactly the kind of people that never want to improve and will never improve.

And then you have me, where if I see someone severely underperforming I’m forced to switch to the job they suck on to see if they actually suck or if it’s hard all of a sudden. Spoiler alert: nah they just suck.

[CelestiCer]

On one hand? you do have a lot of toxic Healer parsers... for some reason it's often WHM parsers. Had my encounter with Dice when I don't even do parsing, I loath it... Admire if you can do it? but my god its something else if you get DPS shamed for it. Or yelled at in VC by a WHM parser for having a Non-Kaiten opinion about doing all I can to help another party clear a fight. " What Celesti!? What!? What?! Say it then!? What?! " <- Ironic as I don't talk on VC ever... Like this overfocus on DPS or performance cause healers don't really have much else to do and healing has been made either to easy in most content? or trivialized to the point of irrelevancy. Look at what they done to the Omega Ultimate raid on how its possible to clear it without a healer. And then there's a good group of healers who really wish their Job or role to be improved in either Design or gameplay... and for years nothing is done. Their probably asking the same thing some of us DPS are where they don't necessarily want the skill-floor to increase keeping it player friendly? but skill-ceiling lifted to allow for some skill-expression beyond spamming 1 DPS button...

Stop making most of the content that's casual braindead... or? Stop making the Jobs braindead that we use to do braindead content allowing for truly optional skill-expression? or both, as @Dixie points out I agree... It only encourages players to be lazier. Nothing that encourages players to improve. And once met with an ounce of hardship? they loath it. Ironic... as the MSQ of Endwalker states the opposite, that we should embrace hardships to get the best out of us and overcome adversity. Instead? we just like to be lazy, easier, dumber, more streamlined, every job hollower...

[Supersnow845]

Square designs jobs so that healers aren’t needed in 90% of content then people get angry when healers end up patchwork fixing this problem by playing a gimped caster

You know what we had the design you are asking for, every single dumb suggestion y’all come up with is literally just “coils”, and we dumped it, you know why, because this isn’t an MMO, this is an e thot simulator with a side of braindead combat

[Renathras]

The Healer DPS Problem: Toxicity it incites

Y'know, I'm not even going to beat around the bush with this. The title says everything, I'm sitting here doing a dungeon and a healer refuses to even use their off GCD abilities.

Sure the tank was a gunbreaker but that's not an excuse for the healer not to fill the role they chose, this is what brings me to the forums today. Not just for this run, but to address what I feel is becoming a MAJOR problem.

In FFXIV we have all sorts of jobs that fill multiple roles, Tanks/Healers/DPS. Y'know, the "holy trinity" as it were.

All jobs have a little bit of the other roles stuff, healing, dps, etc. Having mitigations and heals on DPS, having DPS and mitigations on healers, having heals and DPS on tanks.

But where the problem comes in? Is when people see the .01% players parses and think "Oh that's all that should be needed."

I legitimately had a combat mentor in the novice network tell me ahem.. "Tank's don't need a healer to even clear ultimate content."

To which I say, congrats I guess? Because that doesn't speak for the average player, the average individual isn't gonna be some person who picks the best of the best tank and gets BiS gear, running only the hardest content you can get into, topping the charts, etc.

No, the average player wants to sit here and enjoy the game. The toxic mentality of "Healers shouldn't have to heal." is a plague that needs to go away.

Well said.

[TheNight]

I think they learned a lesson as early as back in Heavensward that making 'regular' content too difficult will not breed better players, it will breed sudden, extreme and vocal pushback against it, and since then didn't try that one again, despite circumstances changing quite a lot by modern day.

Actually, it did breed better players. The vocal minority pushed back and yet the game did fine. The problem was actually with the high end content being too much of a difficulty spike.

So no, you're wrong.