If you're unhappy with this game then unsub... forever.

[Hallarem]

Isn't EVE online needlessly complex and still strong today?

Does EVE online have a mostly casual audience? Does EVE online have a lot of casual content and then ramps up suddenly? Not jabbing, asking in a legit manner.

[Volgia]

Does EVE online have a mostly casual audience? Does EVE online have a lot of casual content and then ramps up suddenly? Not jabbing, asking in a legit manner.

I mean, does it matter? The problem with Wildstar wasn't it's complexities, it was that it didn't have enough time to grow. It was competing with other MMO powerhouses that had 10 times more content that Wildstar could produce in it's lifetime. Why go for something like Wildstar with GW2 and WoW around?

I remember when it came out, I played it for a little while before stopping, but most of my friends who played WoW announced it like the new thing that we would migrate to. Within a month, they were all back playing WoW.

[Chasingstars]

Does EVE online have a mostly casual audience? Does EVE online have a lot of casual content and then ramps up suddenly? Not jabbing, asking in a legit manner.

Fun for that depends on how much you find multiboxing, aka multiple active accounts, is fun. Also you basically have to join a corporation (equivalent to a free company) because it makes it easier on yourself.

[Hallarem]

I mean, does it matter? The problem with Wildstar wasn't it's complexities, it was that it didn't have enough time to grow. It was competing with other MMO powerhouses that had 10 times more content that Wildstar could produce in it's lifetime. Why go for something like Wildstar with GW2 and WoW around?

I remember when it came out, I played it for a little while before stopping, but most of my friends who played WoW announced it like the new thing that we would migrate to. Within a month, they were all back playing WoW.

Oh yes, it had multiple things going bad for it, a niche setting, and think WoW tanked it with releasing their expansion at the same time, but one of the killing blows was catering way too much to the hardcore audience. It wasn't' the "Time to grow" it was what it did with the time it was given plus a lot of other factors. They just leaned way too stubbornly into their whole "We are way more hardcore than WoW is" when WoW was popular exactly because it was casual and easy to approach. Because of the dev teams bad decisions plus the other factors it didn't have staying power.

[Volgia]

Oh yes, it had multiple things going bad for it, a niche setting, and think WoW tanked it with releasing their expansion at the same time, but one of the killing blows was catering way too much to the hardcore audience. It wasn't' the "Time to grow" it was what it did with the time it was given plus a lot of other factors. They just leaned way too stubbornly into their whole "We are way more hardcore than WoW is" when WoW was popular exactly because it was casual and easy to approach. Because of the dev teams bad decisions plus the other factors it didn't have staying power.

It was just bad timing and a tight market issue, more than bad advertisement. It did manage to get a massive influx of player but it had no retention.... because people were too used to WoW and it's competitors. I remember it quite clearly when I asked, weren't you gone to Wildstar? And the response, "But there's nothing to do in that game". They just ate through the content real fast.

Casual players, on the other hand, and by this I mean the people who have busy lives and play on their own time, had different things going on back then, and if any of them were attracted to an MMO, GW2 fit the bill better with no subscription, WoW fit the bill better with it's massive reputation, I could go on I guess, but I think I made my point.

I can draw a parallel here with Overwatch competitors, Marvel Rivals being in the right time and place to upstage it. But boy, the amount of 6v6 hero shooters that were actively more fun to play that ended up dead might match the MMO graveyard of the early 2010s.

[Mawlzy]

Isn't EVE online needlessly complex and still strong today?

EVE itself is arguably needlessly complex, but the PvE for the most part is pretty trivial.

It supports a wide array of playstyles, to the point market traders rarely undock.

I'm not sure it's a very good model for anything, since it is so niche, but I've just returned and it is in better shape than it was 5 years ago IMO.

Fun for that depends on how much you find multiboxing, aka multiple active accounts, is fun. Also you basically have to join a corporation (equivalent to a free company) because it makes it easier on yourself.

Having to join a corporation is a myth spread by nullsec corporations, whose main goal seems to grab new players and turn them into F1 monkeys. And while I have multiple accounts, I've never multiboxed. It simplifies some content like fleet mining and ganking, but it's far from necessary.

[Arzalis]

Oh yes, it had multiple things going bad for it, a niche setting, and think WoW tanked it with releasing their expansion at the same time, but one of the killing blows was catering way too much to the hardcore audience. It wasn't' the "Time to grow" it was what it did with the time it was given plus a lot of other factors. They just leaned way too stubbornly into their whole "We are way more hardcore than WoW is" when WoW was popular exactly because it was casual and easy to approach. Because of the dev teams bad decisions plus the other factors it didn't have staying power.

Not sure I fully agree. Wildstar had a great setting that no other MMO really has. It was a Firefly-esque sci-fi + western setting.

Its biggest problem was that they released with a lot of features that weren't complete because they thought they could finish it before the players got to it. The endgame was poorly thought out/non-existent. I agree they were a bit stubborn on changing some aspects before it was too late.

It's a shame too, because I've never really found another MMO that captures the things I liked about that game.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

The increased monetization

No game with a monthly subscription should also charge you money for items. I don't care if it's 'only cosmetic' or not. While it may be a less aggregious offense, it's still double-dipping. But why should they stop? The players have clearly shown through their wallets that they condone these practices, regardless of complaint. They'll happily continue to thrust their money into the pockets of SE for these cosmetic baubles and SE will be only too happy to oblige. Actions speak louder than words. You can't complain about items being on the mog station when you're continually endorsing it with your purchases. If you want it to stop, then players have to unite and 'go on strike' so to speak and stop purchasing these. You can shout until your voice leaves you, but it won't make a difference.

Conclusion

SE and yes, even CBU3 is a business. Their goal is maximize profit and over the years they have become increasingly corporate in their attitude. Corporations do not care if you're unhappy with their product, so long as you keep buying it. Ask yourself, if a restaurant served you the most bland and tasteless steak, can you imagine going there again and again to keep purchasing it? To give that restaurant your business? What if they refused to give you steak sauce unless you shelled out an additional 5$? Can you imagine a restaurant full of people going there and continuing to buy their food with that being the case? Isn't that insanity? So then how is it that we've reached this state when it comes to games? How is it we continue to complain about how unhappy we are and yet purchase their products and fall into their traps ad infinitum?

We shout ourselves hoarse to be heard and yet our actions and in this case our wallets, speak louder than our words ever will. The corporations do not care about our complaints because they are nothing but empty threats.

'Must I spell it out for you? No one is listening. No one at all!'

I don’t have a problem with mounts being sold on the Mog Station or being available for purchase in general. The real issue is that with each new expansion, we seem to be getting less and less value for our money—pushing more players towards the cash shop. For example, Dawntrail launched with just 11 mounts, while WoW's latest expansion offered 28 right from the start—and WoW even allows players to earn some store mounts just by playing the game. On top of that, we’re now seeing gear sets split up and sold in parts to squeeze out more money, along with things like posters that used to be free event rewards now being monetised. It’s frustrating to feel like we’re paying more but getting less.

[tsuchii]

Agreed. Use your wallet to make a statement. They will listen to $$$ the most.