If you're unhappy with this game then unsub... forever.

[Absimiliard]

All video games should now be judged using the standards set by titles such as BG3 and Elden Ring and the developers thereof. If a development team can't or won't listen to player feedback, or if they can't or won't release a product in a complete state, without the need for microtransactions, then they should be ignored entirely by the community at large. Do not engage with them. Do not give them money. The gaming industry will have no choice but to pay attention if enough people stop enabling their garbage practices.

[ZephyrMenodora]

All video games should now be judged using the standards set by titles such as BG3 and Elden Ring and the developers thereof. If a development team can't or won't listen to player feedback, or if they can't or won't release a product in a complete state, without the need for microtransactions, then they should be ignored entirely by the community at large. Do not engage with them. Do not give them money. The gaming industry will have no choice but to pay attention if enough people stop enabling their garbage practices.

Embarassing watching devs with large corporate funding say that we shouldn't expect better, while they simultaneously throw tons of microtransactions at us with open hands, waiting for our money.

[sharknado]

Embarassing watching devs with large corporate funding say that we shouldn't expect better, while they simultaneously throw tons of microtransactions at us with open hands, waiting for our money.

Usually, it's not the developer's decision. He gets told what to do and he has to do it or get fired. This can also lead to developers treating their job as soulless as possible. If they know execs will sabotage their plans they won't care, won't put in the effort. There is a reason why after a big game release a lot of the staff leaves after bonuses are sorted. They had enough, until the next game when most companies will repeat this pathological situation.

And now SE complaining FF16 sales weren't up to expectations and that PS5 "market growth" should still give sales... like come on, this is an "old" console and due to corporate decisions you released a game on only one platform. There won't be any substantial sales, not until discounts. PS5 owners that wanted the game mostly got it. PC, Xbox is waiting, maybe, as they have other games too.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Usually, it's not the developer's decision. He gets told what to do and he has to do it or get fired. This can also lead to developers treating their job as soulless as possible. If they know execs will sabotage their plans they won't care, won't put in the effort. There is a reason why after a big game release a lot of the staff leaves after bonuses are sorted. They had enough, until the next game when most companies will repeat this pathological situation.

And now SE complaining FF16 sales weren't up to expectations and that PS5 "market growth" should still give sales... like come on, this is an "old" console and due to corporate decisions you released a game on only one platform. There won't be any substantial sales, not until discounts. PS5 owners that wanted the game mostly got it. PC, Xbox is waiting, maybe, as they have other games too.

Probably part of the reason so many large game companies have been turning out titles that are either lackluster or get flambe'd by gamer feedback is decisions forced on the devs by the "number crunchers" who's only goal is to try and squeeze every penny/schilling/rupee/etc... out of the industry and have no interest in the actual industry itself or quality of the products produced by it. This results in bad design changes, dropped features, and unfinished releases as the "number crunchers" attempt to manipulate the company's quarterly earnings reports. In some ways thinking back these occurrences might have escalated after No Man's Sky. That title officially launched missing a huge amount of things the devs had stated would be in the game resulting in a horrifically bad launch. However Hello Games did commit to sticking with the title and eventually fulfilling the content promises and more and it's become one of the best ongoing games currently available. Seeing this might have triggered a mindset in many that it's OK to release a game in a poor or unfinished state as long as they patch it up later. Of course you also have Bethesda who has a long standing reputation of releasing titles flooded immensely with bugs and glitches that range from humorous to gamebreaking but still managed to stay around.

As for FF16 sales not meeting expectations. Blaming "lack of PS5 availability" is nothing but an excuse. The running trends of AAA game releases has resulted in people being far more reluctant to preorder a title. Thus they wait for the title to release and more information about how it plays becomes available from actual gamers playing the game rather from "gaming journalists" giving reviews. When people could clearly see that FF16 was not the next gen FF game they were looking for, they chose not to purchase it. Hence the sales tanking heavily after the first week.

[Zabuza]

All video games should now be judged using the standards set by titles such as BG3 and Elden Ring and the developers thereof. If a development team can't or won't listen to player feedback, or if they can't or won't release a product in a complete state, without the need for microtransactions, then they should be ignored entirely by the community at large. Do not engage with them. Do not give them money. The gaming industry will have no choice but to pay attention if enough people stop enabling their garbage practices.

I emphatically agree. That's part of what I've been trying to get across when making this thread but I caught heavy fire for it for some reason. Controversial opinion apparently.

Okay... Well, I'm happy with FF14. So, I'll keep subbed.

I don't think anyone, including myself, was telling people who were happy with this game they had to unsub. I personally am unhappy with seeming lack of effort from the developers, as well as the predatory monetization that is occurring within the gaming space in general. I am merely saying that complaints alone don't sway AAA developers who are beholden to stakeholders. Stakeholders who only care about the bottom line and not about player enjoyment. The only way to speak to such people is with your wallet if you are unhappy.

[Jojoya]

All video games should now be judged using the standards set by titles such as BG3 and Elden Ring and the developers thereof.

And what about those players who don't enjoy those types of games and/or haven't played them?

I emphatically agree. That's part of what I've been trying to get across when making this thread but I caught heavy fire for it for some reason. Controversial opinion apparently.

Same question to you - what about players who don't enjoy those games and are looking for something different?

Not everyone enjoys the same thing. I'll probably enjoy BG3 (having played the original) but haven't played it yet and so have no way to use it as a base standard. Elden Ring I have not and will not play - I'm not into that combat style.

There is no single standard for every player to judge every game by. The correct standard for a player to use is "Is this a fun and satisfying experience for me?" The answer to that can change over time even if the game doesn't change.

Our likes and interests adjust as we grow older. We may go from the short attention span games as children to long, in depth game play with challenging combat as young adults with plenty of free time to games of shorter duration as family or career oriented individuals back to longer, more in depth game play that is considerate of those with less physical agility compared to their younger days of gaming when we're close to or have retired.

Stop complicating things. There's no need for a game to meet any other standard other than "I'm having fun".

If you're not having fun, find a new game to play that is fun to you.

[Zabuza]

And what about those players who don't enjoy those types of games and/or haven't played them?


Same question to you - what about players who don't enjoy those games and are looking for something different?

Not everyone enjoys the same thing. I'll probably enjoy BG3 (having played the original) but haven't played it yet and so have no way to use it as a base standard. Elden Ring I have not and will not play - I'm not into that combat style.

There is no single standard for every player to judge every game by. The correct standard for a player to use is "Is this a fun and satisfying experience for me?" The answer to that can change over time even if the game doesn't change.

Our likes and interests adjust as we grow older. We may go from the short attention span games as children to long, in depth game play with challenging combat as young adults with plenty of free time to games of shorter duration as family or career oriented individuals back to longer, more in depth game play that is considerate of those with less physical agility compared to their younger days of gaming when we're close to or have retired.

Stop complicating things. There's no need for a game to meet any other standard other than "I'm having fun".

If you're not having fun, find a new game to play that is fun to you.

I don't really understand your argument. Fun games have been on the decline thanks to the predatory practices I've been referring to.

Do you think a videogame is more or less fun when the full product is released with all of the features? Well companies have been milking additional money out of their players by pushing out half-finished titles before they're ready and then later releasing the remainder of the game in the DLC that players get charged for.
Do you think people have more or less fun when they have to spend real $ to buy items that should be built into the game? Take a look at mobile gaming and especially a certain major mobile release that came out this year and tell me players enjoy having to spend thousands of dollars to get fully geared.
Do you think people enjoy having to spend real $ on gacha mechanics where they have a 1% chance of actually getting the item they want, or do you think they would actually just be able to earn the item they want in-game?
Do you think people enjoy companies sometimes even going so far as deceiving them into buying things?
Do you think people enjoy games that completely hold their hand and offer no challenge whatsoever?

Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3 are universally acclaimed because they were created for love of their product rather than maximum profit milking tactics that treat the player like a money pinata rather than a human being.

In FFXIV's case, the devs are making it braindead difficulty for everything outside of Savage difficulty and above. Alliance raid is typically CT which I bet everyone in the raid could auto-attack the whole raid and still win. Expert roulette and below you can probably win while watching Netflix on a second monitor. I can't imagine players having fun doing any of the combat in the MSQ when going through the game. Imagine fighting Thordan and cinematically and thematically, it's built up to be this epic moment. The fight looks cool, but you find out it's braindead easy and you'd have to try extremely hard to LOSE. What about that is epic?
They also tell players that ONLY purchases made to their cash shop go back into funding the game. Subscriptions get diverted into resources for other projects that players didn't ask for. On top of being told that, the number of dungeons per patch was cut down and also the time between patches was lengthened and SE's response was 'COVID guys please understand.'
On top of this, they didn't just divert our money to another project(FF16, that we KNOW of.) They also diverted resources from CBU3 that could've gone into making new ideas or further polishing FF14. There's no way you can tell me that Yoshi-P and Soken working on FF16 did not affect this game. It's literally impossible. Because of FF16, they were unable to give this game 100% of their focus. It may have even been second priority in their minds and their passion for it may have waned given FF16's looming release. Is that what people gave Yoshi-P their monthly sub fee and mogstation purchases for? For them to work on something else?

If you're not having fun, find a new game to play that is fun to you.

I'm trying. I really am. Thankfully, Baldur's Gate 3 just came out, but typically? The gaming landscape is mostly devoid of life and full of blood hungry sharks.

[Myrany]

Snip

What is fun for you may not be the same as what is fun for someone else.

I would guess that many people gauge fun on weather or not they are enjoying themselves while they play the game.

The business end of the game is an afterthought to them if they even think about it.

Yes some people do want something mindlessly easy which is why so many games have a creative mode setting (3 that come to mind Minecraft, 7DTD, NMS).

So no I really don't think the things you are most concerned about have a darn thing to do with which game many people choose. All they care about is if they are enjoying themselves.

[Zabuza]

What is fun for you may not be the same as what is fun for someone else.

I would guess that many people gauge fun on weather or not they are enjoying themselves while they play the game.

The business end of the game is an afterthought to them if they even think about it.

Yes some people do want something mindlessly easy which is why so many games have a creative mode setting (3 that come to mind Minecraft, 7DTD, NMS).

So no I really don't think the things you are most concerned about have a darn thing to do with which game many people choose. All they care about is if they are enjoying themselves.

If they enjoy themselves shoving cash into dev's pockets for half-finished, bug-ridden, difficulty-absent games then gaming is doomed. If they enjoy being taken advantage of and treated like money pinatas then we are lost. I am glad Baldur's Gate 3 exists, to show new gamers what a game could be. To show them they don't have to accept being taken advantage of.

[Myrany]

If they enjoy themselves shoving cash into dev's pockets for half-finished, bug-ridden, difficulty-absent games then gaming is doomed. If they enjoy being taken advantage of and treated like money pinatas then we are lost. I am glad Baldur's Gate 3 exists, to show new gamers what a game could be. To show them they don't have to accept being taken advantage of.

To your mind all those nasty things are true.

To their minds they are getting decent value for their money since they are enjoying themselves.

To my mind the game that just released something truly innovative in the MMORPG group right now is actually a very old one LOTRO. They allow you to pick your difficulty from the moment you roll your character. and the entire world scales to that. Everything from "mobs fall over if you breath on them" to..."I cant even finish a starting quest without a group." If they make this work this is game changing. Mind you that is not a game you would be interested in since it has a pretty aggressive cash shop. Still they came up with something that could be very important going forward in MMORPGs.