Variant/Criterion dungeons are more dead than Bozja/Eureka ever were

[Koros]

Courtesy of FFXIV Collect:

Single Clear Rates for Harder Side Content
Requirement Players Per Clear Achievement Name Percentage
Baldesion Arsenal Cleared 56 players We're On Your Side 19%
Delebrum Reginae Savage Cleared 24-48 players Savage Queen of Swords I 9.9%
Sil'dihn Subterrane Criterion Cleared 4 players The Bloodsands Below 6.1%
Mount Rokkon Criterion Cleared 4 players Moving A Mountain 1.3%
Sil'dihn Subterrane Savage Cleared 4 players The Savage Sands Below 1.1%
Mount Rokkon Savage Cleared 4 players Moving A Savage Mountain 0.1%

Multi-Clear Rates for Easy Side Content
Requirement Players Per Clear Achievement Name Percentage
Delebrum Reginae Cleared 10+ Times 24 players Queen of Swords III 38%
Sil'dihn Subterrane Cleared 12+ Times 4 players Dig Deep 33%
Mount Rokkon Cleared 12+ Times 4 players Mononopeke 12%

Even though more players could get the achievement at once in Bozja or Eureka, it took longer to assemble a group for Baldesion Arsenal or Delebrum Reginae (Savage), and Delebrum Reginae (Savage) had no relic weapon rewards to drive more clears.

The Criterion/Variant dungeons are new to this expansion, but the percentages of Variant/Criterion/Savage clears are already disappointing. Only 1% of players are even bothering with clearing Criterion (not Savage) dungeons. Even Deep Dungeon Floor 99 multi-clear rates are higher (Eureka Orthos cleared 4 times - Vintage Vogue - 3.0%).


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...ore_dead_than/

[AwesomeJr44]

Wow, who would have guessed that if you introduce content and don't give any good incentive to clear it, people generally will either clear it once and abandon it or won't bother to do it at all.

I never would have guessed that. It's almost like a proper reward structure is important and "why can't it just be for fun lol" doesn't work.

[Stormpeaks]

that aint a surprise, basically content dead on arrival that people do once and then move on from, but hey at least G'raha taco hype yayyyy, woooo, surely that will help this game get better and add content to it

I am making a joke about the taco thing because honestly the cheering at fanfest because of it and the way twitter and reddit went after that... really ? lol, it's just an NPC eating a taco and this is all yall need to be hyped up this much, but when it's time to talk about viable long term content, it's all "just quit the game looooooool the game is fine"

[CStrife912]

Man trust you 2 to be the top comments in this post from this user the comedy writes itself… I’m joking.. teasing aside. Variant/criterion is a good concept but they really need to put some grinds into it, they could of easily even tied the relic to it like say run it 10 times to get an item for a stage. Put some low percentage mounts and minions in there that can’t be traded either or hair style or glamour just lock stuff to it. You could even go blizzard lazy on the mounts and have a million recolours lol

In regards to the graha taco cheering like it doesn’t mean anything to me but that’s a lot of people who enjoy it so why should I shit on their fun that’s up to them at the end of the day. Those are the people for better or worse going to be around here playing likely without a care in the world or posting on here to be fair.

[AwesomeJr44]

Man trust you 2 to be the top comments in this post from this user

When I see the name Koros, I know the thread's gonna be good for one reason or another, so I click on it lol

Variant/criterion is a good concept but they really need to put some grinds into it, they could of easily even tied the relic to it like say run it 10 times to get an item for a stage. Put some low percentage mounts and minions in there that can’t be traded either or hair style or glamour just lock stuff to it. You could even go blizzard lazy on the mounts and have a million recolours lol

I agree. Both Variant and Criterion aren't bad themselves, they just don't have any staying power. If there was a good enough reason to continue playing Variant more than 12 times and Criterion more than once, I think that most of the issues with them would be fixed.

The only other thing I'd change is that I'd make 'normal' Criterion be at the Extreme level of difficulty and the savage version at around where it is now without any of the weird rules like the rez ban or the 22m total enrage. I think that would make Criterion a more viable piece of content for midcore players while also keeping the harder difficulty that we've already gotten around for those that want it.

[CStrife912]

When I see the name Koros, I know the thread's gonna be good for one reason or another, so I click on it lol



I agree. Both Variant and Criterion aren't bad themselves, they just don't have any staying power. If there was a good enough reason to continue playing Variant more than 12 times and Criterion more than once, I think that most of the issues with them would be fixed.

The only other thing I'd change is that I'd make 'normal' Criterion be at the Extreme level of difficulty and the savage version at around where it is now without any of the weird rules like the rez ban or the 22m total enrage. I think that would make Criterion a more viable piece of content for midcore players while also keeping the harder difficulty that we've already gotten around for those that want it.

They could tap into more of a unique way as well say the relic needed a specific item X times from a boss only on X path of the dungeon. You would then be engaging with the content in more ways than just running it as well. I am still of the mind it doesn’t matter how unique or hard the content is people will make guides or spreadsheets just sadly people want to min/max their time these days like it’s a constant need of reward or acknowledgment from the game.

Even eureka/bozja suffer from tradable mounts etc which shouldn’t be that way. Granted eureka has BA Ozma and bozja the entries tied ff12 mount thing (still need that)

[Supersnow845]

Criterion just has no niche

Variant is easier than regular dungeons (somehow), criterion is mid tier savage and criterion savage is approaching ultimates/T7S (T7S is an ultimate don’t @ me)

Raiders aren’t gonna do criterion or savage for zero reward and casuals have nothing harder than variant

Why could criterion normal be roughly the difficulty of BA and savage have been equal to about the third turn of a tier

[AwesomeJr44]

They could tap into more of a unique way as well say the relic needed a specific item X times from a boss only on X path of the dungeon.

As interesting as I think that idea would be as it would incentivize you to not just pick the fastest route every time, I think that it would be better if the rewards tied to the relic were available in equal quantities on any path. If they weren't, then there might be arguments in DF groups over which path the group will take. (probably leading to someone leaving) I've already seen a few cases of that with people trying to complete all 12 paths. Of course the option of doing it solo is always on the table, but I think that the random matchmaking option should be kept in mind as well.

Criterion just has no niche

That's why I think that Criterion normal should be around the extreme level of difficulty rather than where it is right now. As much as I like to encourage getting better at games to overcome difficult challenges, I think that even normal Criterion is just too high of a bar for a good portion of the midcore audience that it should be appealing to. Criterion normal seems like the type of content that would be perfect for the type of midcore players who already like extreme trials. Then savage Criterion can remain at the same level of challenge as current Criterion normal for anyone who prefers the current difficulty.

Pretty much what I said, criterion should be BA/easy mid extreme (ultimas bane is another example), savage should be around the E11s level and if the quin legends want another challenge go do the games secret 6th ultimate (T7S)

E11S is pretty easy for a savage, but generally, yeah about that for the rest of them.

[Supersnow845]

As interesting as I think that idea would be as it would incentivize you to not just pick the fastest route every time, I think that it would be better if the rewards tied to the relic were available in equal quantities on any path. If they weren't, then there might be arguments in DF groups over which path the group will take. (probably leading to someone leaving) I've already seen a few cases of that with people trying to complete all 12 paths. Of course the option of doing it solo is always on the table, but I think that the random matchmaking option should be kept in mind as well.



That's why I think that Criterion normal should be around the extreme level of difficulty rather than where it is right now. As much as I like to encourage getting better at games to overcome difficult challenges, I think that even normal Criterion is just too high of a bar for a good portion of the midcore audience that it should be appealing to. Criterion normal seems like the type of content that would be perfect for the type of midcore players who already like extreme trials. Then savage Criterion can remain at the same level of challenge as current Criterion normal for anyone who prefers the current difficulty.

Pretty much what I said, criterion should be BA/easy mid extreme (ultimas bane is another example), savage should be around the E11s level and if the quin legends want another challenge go do the games secret 6th ultimate (T7S)

[Jeeqbit]

Right but... there is a trend, which is that the longer the content has been out, the more people have cleared it.

(Longest) BA 19%
(Second Longest) DRS 9.9%
(Third Longest) Sil'dihn Subterrane Criterion 6.1%
(Shortest) Mount Rokkon Criterion 1.3%

So it could just simply be that people don't necessarily do content the moment it releases, but rather just do it casually over time and eventually find some time to give it a good lot of attempts and then clear it.