G-give it Back T---T; !!

[Shurrikhan]

The reality is: controller holds this game back. Simply as that. Everytime they want to give us something new (and they "need" to do it every expanion) they have to remove something else since controller has hit its button limit in HW. We wont get Kaiten back if at all until like 2-3 expansions when they rip another skill out of the kit to be replaced with something else.

I can pretty comfortably and quite responsively hit 48 buttons without even losing movement control by claw-gripping a Dualshock controller, which is technically better than I can say for KB where I will occasionally be (very briefly) unable to access WASD while hitting something else and will therefore need to lock camera. Controllers don't hold us back any more than keyboard. It's just a matter of people needing to learn to use their modifier keys.

Both could have their functionality improved, to be clear, but neither are bottlenecking our available number of actions at this time (nor are they likely to for another 10-12 actions added).

Which is also a separate issue altogether from button bloat as it exists now. Present button bloat isn't a problem of having more buttons than we can responsively press, but rather just that certain procedures could provide an equal or greater amount of choice and agency without using up as many buttons as they do now.

[Shinkuno]

I can pretty comfortably and quite responsively hit 48 buttons claw-gripping a Dualshock controller. Controllers don't hold us back any more than keyboard. It's just a matter of people needing to learn to use their modifier keys.

And now imagine if there were 60 buttons.. oh wait you only have a limited set of button combinations you can hit We have now as many buttons stretched over 90 levels as we had in stormblood stretched over 70. We dont get more, we get stuff ripped out and replaced. All because they need to fit the controller button limit. In 10 years we will have the same amount of skills stretched over 150 levels.

Controller has access to 48 buttons with expanded controls and WXHB :/, people that use default hotbars on controller are just 1heads.

And we had the same amount of buttons to press for nearly 10 years. Thats why they dumbed down and removed every utility skills, so they can use those slots for yet another "press on cooldown" deal damage ogcd

[Shurrikhan]

And now imagine if there were 60 buttons.. oh wait you only have a limited set of button combinations you can hit We have now as many buttons stretched over 90 levels as we had in stormblood stretched over 70. We dont get more, we get stuff ripped out and replaced. All because they need to fit the controller button limit. In 10 years we will have the same amount of skills stretched over 150 levels.

So, we've got two possible rationales here:

1. The devs are trying to keep under ~35 buttons despite even controllers having access to 48. For this reason alone, they in roughly equal parts (A) recycle abilities, giving back near-identical skills at higher levels, and (B) put out uncreative bloat or unpolished clunk that is then, at best, removed and replaced with a newer, shinier recycled or equally half-assed ability.
   
   [I.e. controllers hold back job kit design.]
   
   
2. The devs recycle abilities even while having a quarter to third spare space for the same reason they so often put out uncreative bloat or unpolished clunk: because it apparently isn't worth their bother to invest so much time over more than a handful of jobs' quality of gameplay.
   
   [I.e., Creative bankruptcy / insufficient job developers / low perceived profitability of spending that much time on jobs' quality of gameplay / insufficient developer effort for whatever reason... holds back jobs' quality of gameplay.]

Given that the first has never come close to being the actual bottleneck, I'm having trouble believing it's the key factor here.

Also, claw-gripping

Claw-gripping has nothing to do with how many keys are available to you... It is only done to be able to move and look around while using those keys.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

So, we've got two possible rationales here:

1. The devs are trying to keep under ~35 buttons despite even controllers having access to 48. For this reason alone, they in roughly equal parts (A) recycle abilities, giving back near-identical skills at higher levels, and (B) put out uncreative bloat or unpolished clunk that is then, at best, removed and replaced with a newer, shinier recycled or equally half-assed ability.
   
   [I.e. controllers hold back job kit design.]
   
   
2. The devs recycle abilities even while having a quarter to third spare space for the same reason they so often put out uncreative bloat or unpolished clunk: because it apparently isn't worth their bother to invest so much time over more than a handful of jobs' quality of gameplay.
   
   [I.e., Creative bankruptcy / insufficient job developers / low perceived profitability of spending that much time on jobs' quality of gameplay / insufficient developer effort for whatever reason... holds back jobs' quality of gameplay.]

Given that the first has never come close to being the actual bottleneck, I'm having trouble believing it's the key factor here.



Claw-gripping has nothing to do with how many keys are available to you... It is only done to be able to move and look around while using those keys.

Yes, and it's uncomfortable as hell to me. I wasn't saying it had anything to do with the number of keys. But if you need to be uncomfortable to access all the combinations of keys, it's not a good design.

[Shurrikhan]

Yes, and it's uncomfortable as hell to me. I wasn't saying it had anything to do with the number of keys. But if you need to be uncomfortable to access all the combinations of keys, it's not a good design.

You literally don't need to use it to access all combinations of keys. I just said as much in what you quoted. Why respond to a quote you haven't read?

*I* use it because it's *more* comfortable for *me* (than moving my thumbs back and forth). You can do all that without claw-grip, just by moving your thumbs a bit more. That just happens to be more painful for me over time than claw-grip.