G-give it Back T---T; !!

[AwesomeJr44]

It IS an obsession, people that want it back ARE irrational in how they will lash out at anyone they perceive as preventing that (even if said person has actual arguments or is offering fair rebuttal to them)

You can't disagree with these people, they're a cult. My position is literally just "why not add an even better button to replace Kaiten" and they still act like a swarm of angry hornets because it wouldn't bring back the object of their obsession. Let me repeat that again. They are against an even better and more interesting version of Kaiten because it's not the thing that they spent a year obsessing over.

This is literally just wanting something only because you can't have it.

[CelestiCer]

You can't disagree with these people, they're a cult. My position is literally just "why not add an even better button to replace Kaiten" and they still act like a swarm of angry hornets because it wouldn't bring back the object of their obsession. Let me repeat that again. They are against an even better and more interesting version of Kaiten because it's not the thing that they spent a year obsessing over.

This is literally just wanting something only because you can't have it.

Simply because I'll repeat it again...

They can remove anything and replace it with Nothing. So they removed Kaiten? and replaced it with Nothing. To willingly accept giving up anything in exchange for something better? is accepting an empty promise as that something better might never arrive as we're still waiting. In fact? that might be the case for other Jobs even more then ours... I am against SE/Dev's and Co's bad decisions that affected gameplay they lost and liked. For the future if you ask me, I'd rather Square not remove anything from any Job? unless they have something new or better immediately to show for it to replace it with. Instead of like you said... waiting years for nothing, as Kaiten removal fixed and improved absolutely nothing.

Personally.. I think the obsession around
obsessing about others obsessions is more obsessive
then my own passion mislabeled as obsession
by obsessive obsessionists.

[AwesomeJr44]

They can remove anything and replace it with Nothing. So they removed Kaiten? and replaced it with Nothing.

Which was stupid on the devs part. I don't even disagree with you on this.

To willingly accept giving up anything in exchange for something better? is accepting an empty promise as that something better might never arrive as we're still waiting.

Asking for a better Kaiten replacement has an equally low chance of working as asking for Kaiten back does, so if we're going to spend a year constantly asking for something, why the worse option of the two?

I am against SE/Dev's and Co's bad decisions that affected gameplay they lost and liked. For the future if you ask me, I'd rather Square not remove anything from any Job? unless they have something new or better immediately to show for it to replace it with.

I literally agree. DRK has the same problem where it needs to wait eons to get much needed changes that people were asking for for years.

However, you don't see me going into threads that have nothing to do with gameplay design to mention the removal of things like Dark Arts. If the constant mentioning of Kaiten was supposed to be a joke, it was funny the first few times you did it, but the joke's been worn out.

I'm literally not disagreeing that Kaiten's removal was a problem. Shinten spam absolutely sucks. The two things we disagree on is that I think we should ask for a better replacement than just bringing Kaiten back, and that I don't think that spamming threads/posts about it for this long is healthy. Again, if you think that this is still a relevant topic, at least spam it on the DPS forums where it might get seen.

Personally.. I think the obsession around
obsessing about others obsessions is more obsessive
then my own passion mislabeled as obsession
by obsessive obsessionists.

Tell me which is more obsessive.
1) Making Kaiten whining posts for at least months. (Again I'm not checking to see if it's been longer)
2) Pointing out #1 in two threads over the course of a few days.

If you choose #2, then I'm sorry but that's pure copium. You guys are acting like a cult, and the object of your worship is a single button that got removed from a video game. I want SAM to be a more interesting and fun job, I just don't agree with the Kaiten worship. Call me a heretic if you want, but it just wasn't THAT good of a button where we need to have this level of devotion to it for an entire year.

[CelestiCer]

W-Was making a T-Shirt out of c-cope (obviously)
What do you t-think? mhm...

[DixieBellOCE]

You can't disagree with these people, they're a cult. My position is literally just "why not add an even better button to replace Kaiten" and they still act like a swarm of angry hornets because it wouldn't bring back the object of their obsession. Let me repeat that again. They are against an even better and more interesting version of Kaiten because it's not the thing that they spent a year obsessing over.

This is literally just wanting something only because you can't have it.

Personally i liked Kaiten, it added a small amount of decision making to the rotation.

If they wanted to cull button bloat, all they had to do was combine Shota/Shota2 into a single target+cleave and it would have made the same difference in bloat that removing Kaiten did.

The current state of SAM players in savage is enough to show how low the skill ceiling for samurai is now, you can play like hot garbage and still do well, because the class no longer allows for meaningful decision making, and you just dump your job bar whenever you have it.

[AwesomeJr44]

Personally i liked Kaiten, it added a small amount of decision making to the rotation.

If they wanted to cull button bloat, all they had to do was combine Shota/Shota2 into a single target+cleave and it would have made the same difference in bloat that removing Kaiten did.

The current state of SAM players in savage is enough to show how low the skill ceiling for samurai is now, you can play like hot garbage and still do well, because the class no longer allows for meaningful decision making, and you just dump your job bar whenever you have it.

I don't disagree with most of this. The skill ceiling is too low, and the button bloat excuse given wasn't a good one. The only thing I disagree with here is that I don't think it was as interesting as people claim it was. I want SAM to be a more interesting job with a higher skill ceiling, but the cult-like behavior over Kaiten (a single button in a video game) is just cringe. Like I said, you don't see me doing this nonsense over Dark Arts or whatever.

They've made Kaiten their entire personality. It's really weird.

That's honestly the only part I find issue with. Even when they make decent points that I can agree with, the weird behavior just makes it cringe.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

I don't disagree with most of this. The skill ceiling is too low, and the button bloat excuse given wasn't a good one. The only thing I disagree with here is that I don't think it was as interesting as people claim it was. I want SAM to be a more interesting job with a higher skill ceiling, but the cult-like behavior over Kaiten (a single button in a video game) is just cringe. Like I said, you don't see me doing this nonsense over Dark Arts or whatever.

They've made Kaiten their entire personality. It's really weird. I even see them do this GameFAQs fifty times ban worthy nonsense in game.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I don't disagree with most of this. The skill ceiling is too low, and the button bloat excuse given wasn't a good one. The only thing I disagree with here is that I don't think it was as interesting as people claim it was. I want SAM to be a more interesting job with a higher skill ceiling, but the cult-like behavior over Kaiten (a single button in a video game) is just cringe. Like I said, you don't see me doing this nonsense over Dark Arts or whatever.



That's honestly the only part I find issue with. Even when they make decent points that I can agree with, the weird behavior just makes it cringe.

My biggest problem with kaiten in 6.0 was it's placement in the opener. Trying to juggle it 3 times along with everything else was rough. It was fine in 5.x, but I think the addition of namikiri made it a bit much, at least in the opener and every 2 mins. Part of why 6.0 ruined sam imo, the flow of the rotations just broke for me.


That's why I'm OK with it being gone, as the flow works better for me than with. I still think kenki for guren/senai shouldn't have been nerfed tho, that felt bad. And I really hate that namikiri exists. Potency should have been left on setsugekka and shoha ii should have been aoe + upgraded potency on single target. Not the mess we got.