G-give it Back T---T; !!

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Wdym guys, Kaiten never left in 6.1 - it only changed its' profession from being a boring obligatory button press before each Iaijutsu to actually modifying your gameplay, which PvP kindly offered.

[Deo14]

Me see Kaiten me happy.

Me see

me no happy

[Absimiliard]

You can identify people that were actually good at SAM pretty fast by their opinion on bringing back Kaiten.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

You can identify people that were actually good at SAM pretty fast by their opinion on bringing back Kaiten.

Why? Because I genuinely don't care about Kaiten I was apparently not good at SAM? Is that really what we're going to assume here?

There can be SAM players who were great that want Kaiten back.
There can be SAM players who weren't great that want Kaiten back.
There can be SAM players who were great that DON'T want Kaiten Back.
There can be SAM players who weren't great that DON'T want Kaiten back.

If you need a coping mechanism, go get a coping mechanism but don't assume how good someone was at Samurai back then based on how much they want Kaiten back now. That's a strawman if I've ever seen one.

[CelestiCer]

Why? Because I genuinely don't care about Kaiten I was apparently not good at SAM? Is that really what we're going to assume here?

If you have to compare the following two...

1. WHM who never played SAM, wanting Kaiten back?
2. SAM main who doesn't want Kaiten back?

The WHM in this hypothetical case and my humble opinion, is the better SAM. There's no question about it, 10/10 completely unbiased view ( obviously ) mhm... ( nods wisely )

[Rolder50]

Why? Because I genuinely don't care about Kaiten I was apparently not good at SAM? Is that really what we're going to assume here?

There can be SAM players who were great that want Kaiten back.
There can be SAM players who weren't great that want Kaiten back.
There can be SAM players who were great that DON'T want Kaiten Back.
There can be SAM players who weren't great that DON'T want Kaiten back.

If you need a coping mechanism, go get a coping mechanism but don't assume how good someone was at Samurai back then based on how much they want Kaiten back now. That's a strawman if I've ever seen one.

A quick check shows me the last time you raided with SAM was in Shadowbringers. Why, pray tell, did you stop?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

A quick check shows me the last time you raided with SAM was in Shadowbringers. Why, pray tell, did you stop?

Because I personally don't play Samurai as much as I play tanks. I never had a problem with playing Samurai before nor after. And as much as that devalues my previous comments, as I am fully aware - there is always the option that whoever you are looking up for their parses has more than one character which you wouldn't know unless they told you. To save you the mystery, I don't.

To the original point though, when I said "I" I meant that as a collective for players who don't miss Kaiten, not "I" myself. The point was to call out the baseless claim that it's a two-camp split between "the good SAMs who want Kaiten back" and "the bad SAMs who don't want Kaiten back". One can be biased for all I care, but this is just a strawman argument.

[Ransu]

Why? Because I genuinely don't care about Kaiten I was apparently not good at SAM? Is that really what we're going to assume here?

There can be SAM players who were great that want Kaiten back.
There can be SAM players who weren't great that want Kaiten back.
There can be SAM players who were great that DON'T want Kaiten Back.
There can be SAM players who weren't great that DON'T want Kaiten back.

If you need a coping mechanism, go get a coping mechanism but don't assume how good someone was at Samurai back then based on how much they want Kaiten back now. That's a strawman if I've ever seen one.

A sam player that doesn't want kaiten back was never really a sam main. May as well just remove kenki and stickers while we're at it and go full yolo sam. People have complained forever about how this game keeps getting simplified, and then when a certain group dislikes a change that makes sam even more simplistic people are suddenly fine with it.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

A sam player that doesn't want kaiten back was never really a sam main. May as well just remove kenki and stickers while we're at it and go full yolo sam. People have complained forever about how this game keeps getting simplified, and then when a certain group dislikes a change that makes sam even more simplistic people are suddenly fine with it.

That's like saying a DRK player that doesn't want HW DRK back was never really a DRK main. Is Samurai a gatekeeping club now that only cares about people who want Kaiten back and who don't?

Look, I get you guys are genuinely mad since 6.1, I well acknowledge this but does every single SAM thread have to turn into a segregation between Kaiten-loving-good-SAMs and Kaiten-not-loving-bad-SAMs? The core of the issue, before as after, is that Samurai Kenki spending has been monotonous. The difference between a Shinten and a Kaiten button press is so minimal, I literally couldn't care less.

Seigan? 50-gauge Guren/Senei? Alternative Kenki spending options that actually do something other than damage that still synergizes with SAM's damage tool kit? Maybe a reduction in base Kenki generation if its generated too much? What about giving Shinten -> Kyuten a sort of synergy? Like:

Shinten -> Next Kyuten has Shinten Potency
Kyuten -> Next Shinten is AOE

But no, it has to always be Kaiten, nothing else.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

That's like saying a DRK player that doesn't want HW DRK back was never really a DRK main. Is Samurai a gatekeeping club now that only cares about people who want Kaiten back and who don't?

Look, I get you guys are genuinely mad since 6.1, I well acknowledge this but does every single SAM thread have to turn into a segregation between Kaiten-loving-good-SAMs and Kaiten-not-loving-bad-SAMs? The core of the issue, before as after, is that Samurai Kenki spending has been monotonous. The difference between a Shinten and a Kaiten button press is so minimal, I literally couldn't care less.

Seigan? 50-gauge Guren/Senei? Alternative Kenki spending options that actually do something other than damage that still synergizes with SAM's damage tool kit? Maybe a reduction in base Kenki generation if its generated too much? What about giving Shinten -> Kyuten a sort of synergy? Like:

Shinten -> Next Kyuten has Shinten Potency
Kyuten -> Next Shinten is AOE

But no, it has to always be Kaiten, nothing else.

The funny thing to me is how the insist losing kaiten was the problem, not the reduction in cost of guren/senai, not the Nerfing of setsugekka just to replace it with a new ability on a 120sec CD.



Just kaiten.