G-give it Back T---T; !!

[Reimmi]

Sigh... noone ever said Kaiten was difficult to press let alone manage any ressources for.

What is being repeatedly said is that Kaiten was essentially a button you press before Iaijutsu 100% of times and never press it on any other GCD 100% of times since at that point Shinten (and previously Seigan) had more ppg (potency per gaugecost).

Yes Shinten spam is boring, yes losing Seigan is a tragedy and I also can understand the satisfaction of the twirling animation and the idea of boosting/changing your next attack. But with Kaiten there was no alternative usecase, you always used it before Iaijutsu and never used it anywhere else in realistic scenarios. Shinten and Seigan you could at least shift where in your timeline you used them as long as you didn't overcap Kenki or went too low on burst window.

If Kaiten was transforming how Iaijutsus or skills in general behaved, THAT would be cool, that is what the PvP version does and what I'd enjoy having on Samurai. But the old version just is a "Shinten you press before Iaijutsus, everytime without question" so I understand why people don't care and don't want it back when there are others that do want it back.

The skill cap was lowered by removing it, it literally made kenki management matter, cause if you over used your filler spender you wouldnt be able to use it.
Just because it was always used doesn't mean it was a bad thing, aetherflow is always used before energy drain, should we remove that?
Life surge is always used before a big hit for dragoon, same thing.

I dont think comparing to pvp is a good idea either because if we go to 4 buttons in our rotation in pve i'm quitting instantly lmao, that works in pvp cause encounters are short, but the game would be so god damn boring with that few buttons

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The skill cap was lowered by removing it, it literally made kenki management matter, cause if you over used your filler spender you wouldnt be able to use it.
Just because it was always used doesn't mean it was a bad thing, aetherflow is always used before energy drain, should we remove that?
Life surge is always used before a big hit for dragoon, same thing.

I dont think comparing to pvp is a good idea either because if we go to 4 buttons in our rotation in pve i'm quitting instantly lmao, that works in pvp cause encounters are short, but the game would be so god damn boring with that few buttons

Yes the skillcap was lowered and I lament it. As someone who plays Dark Knight I find pooling a ressource for a task rather than overspending a good mechanic so I totally agree with you on it. But what I don't agree on is how you conflate other examples with Kaiten.

- Aetherflow is a ressource generator, not a skill transformator. The closest equivalent to that would be Ikishoten -> Ogi Namikiri combo + Shintens. Furthermore, the ressources get to be spent on either energy drain or (depending on what the fight needs) a variety of support utility like Sacred Soil.

- Life Surge is cooldown based, not ressource based. You use plenty of Heaven's Thrusts without Life Surge, you did not use a single Iaijutsu without Kaiten. Before it gets dropped - the same applies to Machinist Reassemble on Drill / Air Anchor / Chainsaw.

I understand your initial fear for anything related PvP, but you are missing the point why I'm bringing it up.

I specifically am only referrring to the Kaiten effect (that is currently on their dash) transforming your single target combo into AOE variants with different effects based on the combo step and nothing else about PvP so if you could stop kneejerk reacting just because I said "PvP" that'd be great. It doesn't have to be a CC, extra damage and a lifesteal but it could be other effects that aren't "press X before every Y everytime without question".

I miss pooling ressources for other skills other than Shinten. I and various others don't miss singular-purpose-only Kaiten. I am not sure how much clearer we can make it.

[CelestiCer]

... I and various others don't miss singular-purpose-only Kaiten. I am not sure how much clearer we can make it.

You lost me at the part where you actually played Samurai...

You didn't play it when we had Hissatsu: Kaiten, now its gone? You still don't play Samurai. For contrast and clarity? I literally play Samurai 24/7 on 3 Lv90 Samurai characters for Community service Raiding. Level boosted and MSQ skipped once, but had so much fun? I literally did this 3 times for the fun of it when I still had my skill kit not extra lobotomized without that all you can eat side dish of Shinten's. I can't be more of a Samurai player... and I am telling you? As a Samurai player... I want Hissatsu: Kaiten back, mhm

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

You lost me at the part where you actually played Samurai...

You didn't play it when we had Hissatsu: Kaiten, now its gone? You still don't play Samurai. For contrast and clarity? I literally play Samurai 24/7 on 3 Lv90 Samurai characters for Community service Raiding. Level boosted and MSQ skipped once, but had so much fun? I literally did this 3 times for the fun of it when I still had my skill kit not extra lobotomized without that all you can eat side dish of Shinten's. I can't be more of a Samurai player... and I am telling you? As a Samurai player... I want Hissatsu: Kaiten back, mhm

Why are you treating this so much like a "us vs them"? Am I as the main of another job not allowed to give reasonable takes on Kaiten? Does someone else who mained Samurai for longer than you have to be the one who said what I said?

I get it, you guys are pissed at the loss of Kaiten, but if other players literally can't give a single comment just because holier-than-thou Samurai veterans who MUST want Kaiten are the only people who are allowed to have a valid take, then you guys just want a glorified echo chamber with no discussion. Is this what you want? Gatekeeping and echo chambers?

I am f-ing sorry that I, a filthy tank player who had something similar to Kaiten (Dark Arts) give suggestions to what a more interesting Kaiten would be that has a better chance to be implemented than essentially reverting the entire thing from 6.1 for the heck of it. How f-ing DARE I to not just play Samurai for 6 years in Savage Raids to be qualified for even talking to you about Kaiten, god forbid I play tank.

Seriously, I am putting in every bit of effort trying to explain that I am not against Kaiten's readdition, but I if can't do that because job segregation based on veterancy matters more then you guys are over the moon.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Aero III
Shadowflare
Miasma II
Bane
Time Dilation
Luminiferous Aether animation
Nocturnal Sect
Old Celestial Opposition

Delete SGE and EW SMN.

And yes pls Kaiten too.

[Alleluia]

Aero III
Shadowflare
Miasma II
Bane
Time Dilation
Luminiferous Aether animation
Nocturnal Sect
Old Celestial Opposition

Delete SGE and EW SMN.

And yes pls Kaiten too.

Brutal Swing, pls. MRD goes WHOOOSH!

[Soge01]

Aero III
Shadowflare
Miasma II
Bane
Time Dilation
Luminiferous Aether animation
Nocturnal Sect
Old Celestial Opposition

Delete SGE and EW SMN.

And yes pls Kaiten too.

And Dark Knight's Power Slash.

[Absimiliard]

And Dark Knight's Power Slash.

How 'bout Dark Knight's entire damn kit and identity at this point? It feels like half a class because it is half a class. Most of the stuff that really made it neat were stripped out and given to other jobs. These days it's just Wal-Mart brand WAR, the chief differences being its slightly more active burst window (and slightly higher burst) and its near-total inability to sustain itself.

[Lindaru]

And Dark Knight's Power Slash.

And Blood Price, Sole Survivor and Dark Arts (and old Delirium animation?) ;w;

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

And Blood Price, Sole Survivor and Dark Arts (and old Delirium animation?) ;w;