Button Bloat: Data for discussion

[Deo14]

I noted that about a third are currently below the 32 threshold as it is.

The OP was more countering the argument that Healers have the least buttons (WHM specifically), since that isn't at all true. You ask me why 32 but...then say you know the answer, so...? I don't need to answer it, then?

For my part - as I say all the time with "4 Healer Model" and "new SMN is fine but old SMN should exist as a separate Job" and so on - I like there being different levels of things across the Jobs so we have the highest odds of someone finding at least one they like. Ideally at least one in each role, but just at least one.

Right now, we have a decent spread. 27 for SMN on the low end and 37 for PLD on the high end. I do feel like some of the Jobs (PLD is a particular sore spot) have a lot of buttons that probably should be pruned because they don't bring anything to the Job. On the other hand, as I've also said before, we have Jobs like SCH where most of their buttons actually have a use justifying them existing as a distinct ability and hotbar slot.

I think it's good we have some with a lot, but also good we have some with a little. I do feel some of the ones with a lot should be looked at to see if all those buttons ARE bringing something to the table or not, though. But if they are, I'm not advocating they be changed "just because", or changed at all.

I thought the argument was that not everyone is comfortable with the way controllers handle that 48 button layout. Was it just a side/off-topic comment? It sounded like you wanted to remove bloat in order to fit into the 32 quota, but since you clarified that is not the case I don't understand the point of that argument, because some jobs will fit into this quota if you remove real bloat, but some won't, so this wouldn't solve it, people who don't want to use 48 button layout will be effectively locked out from the jobs that are over this limit. Or even worse, they'll still play these jobs, but not with all skills. Which is why you saying that only real bloat should be looked at, and that 48 button layout is too much for some seems conflicting.

I think it's good we have some with a lot, but also good we have some with a little. I do feel some of the ones with a lot should be looked at to see if all those buttons ARE bringing something to the table or not, though.

All jobs should be checked for button bloat, even SMN. Because even though SMN has least amount of buttons, he still somehow has button bloat. One of them is Physick, which is imo in current game the bloatiest of all the bloats. Maybe, just maybe, if SE sees how empty SMN's hotbars are, they might rethink it and add something more to the job, because it looks like they ran out of time when they were reworking it and had to release it unfinished. It really feels like Fester should be connected to something or do more than just be a 2 stacks of oGCD every minute.

You ask me why 32 but...then say you know the answer, so...? I don't need to answer it, then?

I specified it was rhetorical, I used your opinion alongside other 2 examples to point out different ideas of ideal buttons by different people, to showcase how disputable that number can be depending on who you ask.