Button Bloat: Data for discussion

[Renathras]

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- You can press X to doubt, but I've had it happen a handful of times that I got a Cure 1 off and it landed JUST before/as the damage was hitting, saving the target. It's niche, but useful. It's why I prefer Cure 1 -> Esuna ideas since it still retains that (and the MP economy) functionality.

- ...though more for SCH. Physic and Adlo just don't work well as an upgrade path. Your proposal is how I used to think to do it, but then you run into the problem: Does it cost 500 MP or 1000 MP? Cure 2 and Benefic 2 are just straight upgrades to Cure 1 and Benefic 1 in everything but MP cost and cast time (for Cure), but SCH has something else going on. The total healing + Shield of Adlo is pretty considerable, and well more than the 800 potency of healing from WHM. If anything (since shields are more valuable than healing in pretty much all cases other than beating a Doom healing check, and you have Emergency Tactics for that), Adlo's total should be lower than Cure 2's. Right now, it's a smidge higher (800 vs 840), but making it this wayy would be 800 vs 990, which is a pretty considerable difference. It's why Physic -> Leeches makes even more sense.

- Which spells did I say combine? Sorry, was supposed to be Whispering Dawn + Fey Blessing, like my SCH write-up thread. Specifically for that reason; they currently do have a CD of both being 1 min.

Because there is also the extra easily accessible set by holding L+R or R+L giving 16 more,

I literally brought this up... You can say "you can't just ignore them", but they aren't easily accessible. Press and hold commands don't work for everyone, and don't work as well as tapping a bumper or holding a shift button on keyboard. I already mentioned this. You liking it is fine, not everyone does. Quite a few people don't play with that system, because they don't find it "extra easily accessible". I don't.

It also doesn't counter the point that 30 buttons is already a lot of buttons. What argument can you give that an MMO class must have at least 40 buttons or it isn't challenging/interesting/fun?

My post comes off a bit contradictory because I was adding a bit of nuance to the discussion. Supersnow is right in that there are 48 easily accessed buttons

They aren't "easily accessed", though.

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I feel like this is the point where we collectively have to realize "subjectivity". We don't have a clear and agreed on definition for "easily", clearly. To me, easily on keyboard is either one button (1 to +) or holding down a modifier and pressing those buttons (Shift/ALT/CTRL + 1 to +). That gives a total of 4 bar sets that are pretty easy to access. For controller, it's holding down one trigger and pressing a button, with the allowance of a quick bumper tap before doing so. Those are "easily accessible".

If you think other things are easily accessible...good for you. I'm genuinely happy for you.

...but that isn't a universal position, hence why I don't use it for discussions.

...and Upheaval should get a trait to upgrade it's damage, which changes the animation from uppercutting the enemy, to grabbing them with one hand and headbutting them really hard

"You can't suplex the Ghost Train but you CAN pick it up off the ground and headbutt it!"

[ForsakenRoe]

Physic and Adlo just don't work well as an upgrade path. Your proposal is how I used to think to do it, but then you run into the problem: Does it cost 500 MP or 1000 MP?

500-600 to make it more comparable to the revamped Cure2's cost. Also, Regen is 1200p and costs 400. The shield is quite comparable to Cure2, only being 'out of control strong' when it crits. Cure2 can be spammed, Adlo loses effectiveness if the shield isnt broken by the time the next cast is finished. Also, having Adlo at say 600, makes it more incentive for newer players to think 'I could Succor this, orrr... I could Adlo>Deploy, for a stronger shield AND it's MP cheaper!', helping to build a good habit earlier on. As nice as Physick>Leeches might sound, it doesn't mean we'll use Physick-Leeches any more often, so it's still going to be a pretty dead button on the bar

I'm personally not super opposed to Blessing/Dawn getting combined, but... I can see it causing a lot of overheal issues, potentially. That, and I'd rather they made Blessing an AOE gauge spender or something, instead of 'Remote Deploy Indom'