Yoshi P in a nutshell

[LilimoLimomo]

Thing is that content lower than EX never forces you to be good. In fact, devs implied that it's fine that half a party sucks, if there are few people who can carry them. Skill ceiling is for these people effectively irrelevant, nothing changes if we lift the skill ceiling, at worst they'll deal less damage, but they should if they don't put in the effort. People who want to chill can, nobody is forcing them to parse 99 in Sastasha. But if people want to get better, they should have a space to express themselves.

I agree with a lot of the philosophy here, but unfortunately the fact is that even in non-EX content, less skilled players are criticized frequently enough that for some of them it creates an unwelcoming environment. I'm guessing it's because not all high-end players are as understanding as you; many see someone doing only half the damage they could be doing and they feel like that player should be doing better, without thinking about the needs and wants of that player. That issue got big enough that the devs made their controversial post a few years back about how it's basically against the ToS to tell players how to play. There are a lot of different angles from which to tackle a problem like this, but one of them is to try to reduce the gap between the skill floor and ceiling. To be clear, I think there's both good and bad to this approach.

I'll also add that in terms of accessibility, more buttons can translate to more overwhelming, which can be discouraging for players, even the ones who are trying to get better. So there's that angle, too.

And I guess I should also just sort of restate my intent! My goal isn't to say that Yoshi-P is finding the ideal solutions; I myself disagree with that! I'm just saying that the solutions he is finding have a reasonable basis relative to the often conflicting goals he's trying to meet as best he can, so even when I disagree with his solutions, I trust that he's genuinely trying.

So if you believe this is not enough, what job currently do you think is getting enough feedback to justify listening to it? I'm not going to disprove the math, both of us would work with just estimates, but compared to any other individual job, SAM just seems to get most feedback by far. Do you suggest none of the job feedback is worth listening to?

I mean I think it's all worth listening to. Even if your feedback on Kaiten doesn't achieve the specific goal of bringing Kaiten back, it will undoubtedly play a part in shaping how the devs develop content in the future. The devs are trying to make a game that a dozen different types of players will all enjoy, and you're definitely one of the types of players they want to please. It's just that they're trying to please all those other kinds, too, and that requires that they compromise on what every kind of player wants. But your feedback helps them get closer to what you want in the future.

So I wouldn't look at the devs not doing a rollback as them not listening, as rollbacks just one of many ways that devs act on feedback. And rollbacks are perhaps that most extreme kind of dev response, and thus one that requires a very extreme backlash to elicit. Your feedback will shape the game in other ways, though!

Well, I guess that I'm simply opposite of you - 3 different stickers is my style. After that, it's just elimination process. I always liked healers, but healers in this game are just bad, minus 4 jobs. I'm not a fan of casters except RDM, BRD feels like support that cannot support, don't like DNC and I hate job fantasy of MCH, that's minus another 5 jobs. MNK seems to have interesting gameplay loop, but martial arts are the just incredibly boring for me. RPR is smooth, but I feel like my brain is becoming smooth while playing it, same as WAR. DRG is kind of fun, but not fan of that many buffs and it feels like just throwing bunch of oGCDs, similar to DRK. So now I'm down to 5 jobs, and one of them is PLD, which I still like, it's just not that interesting anymore, after physical and magical phase are all in one. From the rest of the jobs, I just like SAM the most, even without Kaiten.

SAM is still most interesting for me compared to other jobs, it's simple as that. I haven't stopped playing it after EW, even though ShB SAM felt more engaging.

Thanks for telling me so much about the jobs you like and dislike; it makes sense, you're someone who really likes trying to achieve a meaningful skill ceiling, while also caring about the aesthetic vibe of the class you're playing. PLD is may main tank and I do feel ambivalent about the consolidation of the physical and magical phases. On one hand, it was neat to go between those phases. On the other, there's something about having magic spells basically be the 4th step of the 1-2-3 combo that I enjoy, and the overall rotation does feel a bit more relaxed now that there's just that single primary burst window. As for DRG, I feel similarly, so I'm really looking forward to seeing the DRG rework that will be released with 7.0; I'm hoping it will feel a bit more distinct, a bit more focused towards regularly jumping in ways that feel meaningful. And with luck, the job updates in 7.0 will be something that gives all players something they find even more enjoyable than what's already out there.