Yoshi P in a nutshell

[TheNight]

i suppose if you ignore the lengthy history of Yoshi-P engaging with fans and making changes to accommodate them, this is accurate

Pray tell when was the last time Yoshi P made a change due to feedback that wasn't a simple UI or systems tweak?

[LilimoLimomo]

Pray tell when was the last time Yoshi P made a change due to feedback that wasn't a simple UI or systems tweak?

The most recent Fan Fest. All the folks who've been asking for two dye channels for glams are psyched about it.

With respect, I'm guessing that maybe it feels to you like Yoshi-P isn't making changes due to feedback because he's not making the change you would care about the most?

[Deo14]

The most recent Fan Fest. All the folks who've been asking for two dye channels for glams are psyched about it.

With respect, I'm guessing that maybe it feels to you like Yoshi-P isn't making changes due to feedback because he's not making the change you would care about the most?

Doing like 5 things according to feedback per expansion is not what I would imagine from devs who boast about listening to feedback. Especially since it's often just a small things. Things like CT cheesing should be solved a long time ago, patch or 2 after the suggestions started, but it's only getting fixed now. People were suggesting more radical changes, like making CT raids actually fun, but devs went the easy way and just made countermeasures for ilvl cheesing, which is still just a bandaid.

Similar with the dyes. People are asking constantly for removing glam restrictions, unlocking glams permanently, and make system similar to GW2/WoW, and of course dyes. And we go from 1 dye to a whole 2. One step at a time I guess.

You might argue that they've been doing some decent QoL this expansion, but that's not from good will, there had to be drama in 6.1 for them to finally start working on that.

Then we get to feedback about job design, that's where things become just sad. RDM is in terrible spot since like 6.1/6.2. We still don't have an answer to what did Kaiten removal actually solve. White mage and its clones healers are just bad. There's thread on healer forums called "Summary of healer issues", and the post has 4k words, which I'm not sure if it's hilarious or depressing. There's so many long standing issues, like problems with both level and ilvl sync, but they really just do few things per expansion according to feedback.

[LilimoLimomo]

Doing like 5 things according to feedback per expansion is not what I would imagine from devs who boast about listening to feedback.

With respect, this seems to have swept past the intent of my initial comment. I said there was a history of Yoshi-P making changes according to feedback, and insinuated that that history shouldn't be ignored. If the magnitude of that history isn't to someone's liking, sure, say as much, weigh in. Just don't ignore it.

Similar with the dyes. People are asking constantly for removing glam restrictions, unlocking glams permanently, and make system similar to GW2/WoW, and of course dyes. And we go from 1 dye to a whole 2. One step at a time I guess.

I'm definitely one of those people who would like major changes to the glam system such as the ones you listed. But I also understand when we don't get them, perhaps because I've worked in game dev myself? The way Yoshi-P talks about certain desired changes gives me the impression that the 2.0 implementation made a lot of understandably hasty choices that would at this point be costly to adjust. And as the game's producer, it's his job to min-max all of the possible work that could be done and decide which work is most worth the limited bandwidth the team has, which will necessarily take into account how much work each task takes and how much reward it's expected to bring. The higher the cost of making a change, the lower it's ratio of juice-per-squeeze. And sometimes that means that features I'd love get left on the cutting room floor.

You might argue that they've been doing some decent QoL this expansion, but that's not from good will, there had to be drama in 6.1 for them to finally start working on that.

Nope, I wouldn't ever argue goodwill. Companies aren't your friends, and every decision they make is made with consideration to their bottom line. Good will might sometimes overlap with that, but it's never the only thing at work.

That's why they make the changes they make, and that's why they add the content they make: because it's predicted to be what the most people will be happiest with, therefore perpetuating the sales of their product.

Then we get to feedback about job design...

I don't see the fact that there are problems as evidence that the devs aren't listening; rather, it generally highlights their priorities, as well as problems that are genuinely difficult to solve. In this case, it might suggest that these issues aren't seen as a meaningful enough problem to enough of the player base to be worth the cost of adjusting them. Maybe there are enough players that like the way things are that it complicates things. It's hard to say. But I'd be quite surprised to learn the devs are acting in opposition to what they believe the bulk of their players want, as that would be sabotaging their own project and careers.

[Deo14]

With respect, this seems to have swept past the intent of my initial comment. I said there was a history of Yoshi-P making changes according to feedback, and insinuated that that history shouldn't be ignored. If the magnitude of that history isn't to someone's liking, sure, say as much, weigh in. Just don't ignore it.

Some people do latch on these few cases as a tick. That's more about some people in the community, who try to argue with giving those few examples as some foolproof argument.

I'm definitely one of those people who would like major changes to the glam system such as the ones you listed. But I also understand when we don't get them, perhaps because I've worked in game dev myself? The way Yoshi-P talks about certain desired changes gives me the impression that the 2.0 implementation made a lot of understandably hasty choices that would at this point be costly to adjust. And as the game's producer, it's his job to min-max all of the possible work that could be done and decide which work is most worth the limited bandwidth the team has, which will necessarily take into account how much work each task takes and how much reward it's expected to bring. The higher the cost of making a change, the lower it's ratio of juice-per-squeeze. And sometimes that means that features I'd love get left on the cutting room floor.

For me, it's seems questionable that in this expansion they've been actively trying to make this game a single player, instead of focusing on this stuff that people do want. I get that attracting new players is priority, but it would be nice if veterans got a little bit more than just scraps.

I don't see the fact that there are problems as evidence that the devs aren't listening; rather, it generally highlights their priorities, as well as problems that are genuinely difficult to solve. In this case, it might suggest that these issues aren't seen as a meaningful enough problem to enough of the player base to be worth the cost of adjusting them. Maybe there are enough players that like the way things are that it complicates things. It's hard to say. But I'd be quite surprised to learn the devs are acting in opposition to what they believe the bulk of their players want, as that would be sabotaging their own project and careers.

That I would understand. But in case of healers, they got told to "just play ultimates". I get that this is hard thing to fix, but they still haven't done anything meaningful to address that. In case of Kaiten, that's relatively easy thing to fix, just revert to the state that people were happy with. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the whole SAM 6.1 clown fiesta, but here's my thread if want it in more detail. Long story short, all reasons they gave us make no sense if you dig just a few centimeters under a surface. They specifically asked for feedback about it, which we did provide, and then they ghosted us. You can check DPS forums, even after 1.5 year, people are still not happy about it. So if they don't care about this, how can you expect them to care about anything else?

[Miracle_Diva]

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It took them 10 years to add visible buff timers on group buffs in party list.