I was almost in the mood to play FF14 again

[MistakeNot]

But then I remembered SAM doesn't have Kaiten any more, so the mood disappeared and I played a different game instead.

Of all reasons not to play FF14, that is one of the sillier ones.
What I don't understand is why you felt the need to tell us about it.

[Mikey_R]

Why would you ever sacrifice a Midari for another Shinten?
Maybe for a Senei, but there's no shortage of Kenki, is there...

You don't sacrifice a whole Midare, you sacrifice a seal, which you obtained from either your 2 combo or your 3 combo. By delaying your rotation, it enables you to better line up the 2 minute window to get the most damage possible in the timeframe. AKA, lose some damage early to gain later.

[Ggwppino]

Of all reasons not to play FF14, that is one of the sillier ones.
What I don't understand is why you felt the need to tell us about it.

So is it stupid that your job, most likely main, got neutered overnight because they woke up crooked? So is it silly that with unanimous complaints, designers and devs have blatantly ignored community feedback? Maybe he's one of the least stupid, maybe.

[Deo14]

You don't sacrifice a whole Midare, you sacrifice a seal, which you obtained from either your 2 combo or your 3 combo. By delaying your rotation, it enables you to better line up the 2 minute window to get the most damage possible in the timeframe. AKA, lose some damage early to gain later.

There's serious overlap of people who don't think Kaiten was a big deal, and people who don't even know how to play SAM.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]This is some random log from p10s, 78 parse:

Disgusting.

I knew there would be a spike in number of Shintens used after Kaiten removal but since I almost never touch it anymore post 6.1, I didn't realize it's THAT many now.

When I go back into Eureka/Bozja to play SAM a couple of days ago, my fingers instinctively tried to hit my "Kaiten" hotkey, then I'm like "Right, of course "

[Absurdity]

Disgusting.

I knew there would be a spike in number of Shintens used after Kaiten removal but since I almost never touch it anymore post 6.1, I didn't realize it's THAT many now.

When I go back into Eureka/Bozja to play SAM a couple of days ago, my fingers instinctively tried to hit my "Kaiten" hotkey, then I'm like "Right, of course "

It's not quite creeping into the territory of 60+% Dosis, Glare, Malefic, Broil spam that healers have, but it sure is doing it's best impression of that atrocious design.

[VictorSpoils]

Disgusting.

I know...that Kyuten ruins the whole thing.

[Hurlstone]

I can understand why people miss Kaiten and I do hope that they add it in somehow with 7.0, though I still think the job is worthy and fun without it. Was surpised by how much I enjoyed it when I finally got it to 90 recently.

[Renathras]

Genuine question, from someone who decided to level SAM just recently in a post-Kaiten world, why exactly people miss it so much? I ask that because right now, the job's rotation feels really good and engaging. Idk, I'd probably join the chorus if I tried it before.

Partly a meme, partly rose-tinted goggles, partly some people just like to have something to complain about, and partly some people just liked it.

And I don't mean that to be derisive - some people genuinely liked it - but mechanically, it was like PLD having Fight of Flight and Requiescat. You never used the second without the first, so it didn't bring anything to the table. It also made balance and the auto crit stuff kind of weird and devalued crit and stuff (this was before they implemented the "auto-crit/direct hit abilities do more damage based on crit/direct hit effects" thing, which would have helped with that). It was slightly more involved since it was tied to pooling a resource, but in practice, it was kind of bland in the "you always use these together, why have a second button?" way.

But some people really really liked it. I've also seen very rational and sober minded theorycrafters and guide makers say that it really wasn't all that and explain why they thought so. So both sides have a decent argument to make. (It's funny, I still haven't leveled SAM...but I still have the grayed out version on my bar for posterity. )

You're right, though, that SAM feels very good right now. If you never played with Kaiten and you do like current SAM, don't feel like you have to hate it or should "join the chorus", just keep loving the thing you love. Nothing wrong with that. : )

EDIT:

So is it stupid that your job, most likely main, got neutered overnight because they woke up crooked? So is it silly that with unanimous complaints, designers and devs have blatantly ignored community feedback? Maybe he's one of the least stupid, maybe.

Believe it or not, the complaints are not unanimous.

Again, there are theory crafters, guide makers, etc that can give reasoned arguments for why Kaiten's removal was not a bad thing/was a good thing. On other forums (not this one for some reason), the position is not unanimous. Reddit, for example, but r/ffxiv and r/ffxivdiscussion (which is more technically minded people discussing mechanics and stuff) has dissent against Kaiten being a good ability.

I'm not saying one way or the other - both sides, imo, have good arguments - but I am saying complaints are not unanimous.

.

Oh, and don't get me wrong, I don't know that removing Kaiten WAS a good idea. I'm just pointing out there is more discussion/disagreement on the topic than skimming this forum would suggest.

[CelestiCer]

Genius, Last thread was pretending to be about Shoha II but it was actually a Kaiten thread..
This time the title doesn't even contain any information hinting at it even being a SAM thread, let alone another Kaiten thread, you guys sure are devious.

We learned from SE/Devs and Co. Also what you think of my signature <3