I was almost in the mood to play FF14 again

[Shurrikhan]

What? How does that even make sense, ranged players are the cause of positional and uptime management being removed from melee, how do you figure that?

I didn't. Those are your words, not mine.

You asked for where you'd see SAMs complaining about other simplifications of their job and/or melee-range play outside of Kaiten threads / threads that mention Kaiten. You can find them almost anywhere other jobs complain about simplifications to their job, especially if those simplifications affected something specific to melee-range play.

Uhhh ,SAM must have it pretty good if one the complaints you are mentioning with is the shape of an AoE attack you don't use in any meaningful content.

You ask for what other complaints they'd have that'd stand apart from removal of Kaiten (which itself bundled complaints surrounding the rationale for its removal or what the "fix" failed to fix -- bundled into it (e.g., that the problem wasn't action bloat, but rather button bloat, which would have made Shoha/Shoha II, Ikishoten/Namikiri, and/or Guren/Senei button-swaps/consolidations a better solution).

Since Kaiten was a keystone component around which quite a few different considerations/gameplay components intersected, that doesn't leave much.

• That the gauge was made basically irrelevant outside of being a number of Shinten charges? Directly, if not solely, caused by the removal of Kaiten.
• Lack of gauge margining? Directly, if not solely, caused by the removal of Kaiten.
• Continued button bloat? Caused by the devs misunderstanding prior complaints of "unnecessary button bloat" as "action bloat" and thereby removing Kaiten instead of allowing skills solely available after using another CD to take the button-position of that CD, etc.

Yet strangely,some how,SAM make more noise than SMN.

Probably because the one at least offered something in place of what it removed. The other just left that void.

[kayll]

I didn't. Those are your words, not mine.

Never once did I mention ranged players at all, are you trying to extrapolate something that isn't there? You may need to reread my message.
My issue is the extremely selective complaints and hyper focus of complaints of Kaiten when there is more wrong with the melee role in general, Its been over a year, its stale and its played out.
There are no recent threads about these issues because these issues are mostly beneficial to the class, Yet every other day there is a NEW Kaiten thread, repeating the exact same things, you all may as well make a leaflet.
And before you retort with "adding Kaiten back would add complexity and difficulty", is "Press X before Y, every time or you are trolling" really the complexity you absolutely MUST have in the game?
Is the bar that low?
I get losing skills sucks but a borderline redundant "next skill do big more damage" skill?

You ask for what other complaints they'd have that'd stand apart from removal of Kaiten.

Never did that either, I know what the complaints are, I asked where are they, Why are they so few?
Yet there are 5 threads on the first page about Kaiten, and even then, This seems like an extremely minor complaint, Cause again how important are your AoE attacks in meaningful content?

Dunno if you are trying to put words in my mouth or just reading into my previous message way too much but it was pretty cut I like to think.
I didn't give my two cents about Kaiten in general until it just became annoying spam of SAM acting like its the end of the world for a year straight.

[Ggwppino]

Probably because the one at least offered something in place of what it removed. The other just left that void.

I would say absolutely not. The smn just missed badly in depth.
I lost all considerations I had to do and got a bare job. Clearly halfway out. A rather poorly designed work, from the progress to its components, with a carbuncle that no longer does anything on 4 of the 6 old keys and that has nothing to do with the new fantasy, with 2 identical burst phases with spam for 15 seconds of a single button.
Only problem? that new smn has brought too many people into high-level content and if you try to point out how sadly bare the job is, there are all those people who say they enjoy spamming a single button with no cast, especially enjoying the fact that the old smn users lost 21/22 of their fun, because those who like to play a class and therefore hate single button spam are the weird ones.

Having said that, you are right to complain that they are thinning your gameplay more and more. It ends up that all the classes will be identical because of this crusade to empty the classes.


It must also be said that the smn who complained were rather disciplined (?) and did it right in two/three posts of 20 pages or so.