About the Blessing of Light and the Echo

[LilimoLimomo]

Yo friends, I need help clarifying the difference between two, so if I have it right:

The Echo
- Let’s you see into someone/something’s past (can be controlled apparently)
- Resist primal/corrupting influence (or impose your own influence in the case of resonant)
- A Universal translator
- Some users have unique ability

The Blessing of Light
- Resist primal/corrupting influence
- An affinity toward light? (Although there’s a limit, we can absorb a good bit of light has shown in ShB)
- Be empowered by Haedelyn?

I've been thinking about this thread as a I replay content and here are some observations:

• I don't believe we ever see anyone with the Blessing of Light who doesn't also have the Echo. So the Echo may be a prerequisite to have the Blessing of Light.

• It seems like having the Blessing of Light and being a Warrior of Light are the same thing?

• For our WoL as well as the Warriors of Light from The First, acquiring a Crystal of Light gifted to them by Hydaelyn after an act of heroism seemed to be a meaningful aspect of — if not the defining feature of — what makes someone a Warrior of Light. This theory seems reinforced by the fact that when Midgardsormr removes the Blessing of Light from our WoL, it is represented by the removal of the 6 Crystals of Light we had previously collected.

[SannaR]

I've been thinking about this thread as a I replay content and here are some observations:

• I don't believe we ever see anyone with the Blessing of Light who doesn't also have the Echo. So the Echo may be a prerequisite to have the Blessing of Light.

• It seems like having the Blessing of Light and being a Warrior of Light are the same thing?

• For our WoL as well as the Warriors of Light from The First, acquiring a Crystal of Light gifted to them by Hydaelyn after an act of heroism seemed to be a meaningful aspect of — if not the defining feature of — what makes someone a Warrior of Light. This theory seems reinforced by the fact that when Midgardsormr removes the Blessing of Light from our WoL, it is represented by the removal of the 6 Crystals of Light we had previously collected.

This isn't quite true as our Minfillia, Krile, and Arenvald all have the blessing of light (two who state this being the case) all don't have their own crystal of light. Meanwhile Yasale as we know has a crystal of light. That is unless the single crystal she uses is just an ice crystal while transforming into Shiva while free falling and not a crystal of light tm. Then I'm not sure if Ramza et all or even Tenzen had their own crystals yet we know Ramza and Tenzen were the Warrior of Light of their time.

[LilimoLimomo]

This isn't quite true as our Minfillia, Krile, and Arenvald all have the blessing of light (two who state this being the case) all don't have their own crystal of light.

Do you recall where it's stated that any of these 3 have the Blessing of Light? I did some research as I wasn't quite sure myself and what I found was only mentions of them having the Echo, but never the Blessing of Light.

Meanwhile Yasale as we know has a crystal of light. That is unless the single crystal she uses is just an ice crystal while transforming into Shiva while free falling and not a crystal of light tm.

Hmmm, it does have the same shape. Is the crystal she holds in that scene revealed at a previous point in the story? If so that might be the key to identifying whether it was a Crystal of Light.

[LilimoLimomo]

Another thought: if the Echo prevents tempering, and all Ancients had the Echo, then that suggests that the Convocation could not have been tempered by Zodiark. Which honestly makes sense, as numerous named members of the Convocation commit acts that presumably they would not have been able to do if they were actually brainwashed into loyalty (Fandaniel and Mitron are the obvious examples, and there are arguments to be made for both Lahabrea and Emet-Selch).

[Absimiliard]

Another thought: if the Echo prevents tempering, and all Ancients had the Echo, then that suggests that the Convocation could not have been tempered by Zodiark. Which honestly makes sense, as numerous named members of the Convocation commit acts that presumably they would not have been able to do if they were actually brainwashed into loyalty (Fandaniel and Mitron are the obvious examples, and there are arguments to be made for both Lahabrea and Emet-Selch).

The Echo doesn't prevent tempering. That's an effect of the traveler's ward.

As for Zodiark; we're told point blank by the story the Convocation was tempered when they summoned him. Tempering is as its core the victim's aether being shifted strongly toward a particular elemental affinity, with a side effect of this being the erosion of their will and subsequent loyalty to the primal responsible. Beings with greater aetherial density are less vulnerable to it, as we saw with Tiamat. The ancients, being seemingly even more aetherially dense than Midgardsormr's brood, would logically retain even more autonomy than that.

Emet-Selch is a strange case, to be sure. He made it clear several times he was tired of the entire debacle, even attempting to settle down with his (as Solus) mortal family and abandon the cause entirely. This was of course thwarted when his son died, but the fact he was able to do it at all indicates a very high degree of resistance. Of course, this could in part be attributed to Zodiark's absence and/or the likelihood of it never having never really issued commands to its summoners to start with. They were tempered, but their "god's" only real purpose was to safeguard and heal the star.

[Rannie]

Do you recall where it's stated that any of these 3 have the Blessing of Light? I did some research as I wasn't quite sure myself and what I found was only mentions of them having the Echo, but never the Blessing of Light.


Hmmm, it does have the same shape. Is the crystal she holds in that scene revealed at a previous point in the story? If so that might be the key to identifying whether it was a Crystal of Light.

After the Isle of Vale is Destroyed and during the time we are trying to find the Scions in heavensward Krile explicitly says that the blessing of light protected her from the Isle's destruction (it also says this in the Unending codex as well see link below). Also when Elidibus hits Minfillia with a spell of darkness at the old base he makes a comment about Hydaelyn's protection on her.

https://www.theunendingcodex.com/persons/krile

ps I doubled checked to make sure that post is valid if you still don't believe it then you can check your own Unending codex.

Also Ryne has the blessing of light as well which protects her from the Sineaters.. it was an entire plot point of ShB oh and she didn't have the echo and she's never heard Hydaelyn


Also as a quick counter point Elidibus used the exact same attack he used on Minfillia on G'raha before the SoS fight on the First and due to G'raha not being "blessed" by Hydaelyn the attack was withstood because he was 8 times rejoined and that was remarked upon by Elidibus as well (the Scene where Elidibus shows up while we are feeling the "wind" on our face)

[SannaR]

Do you recall where it's stated that any of these 3 have the Blessing of Light? I did some research as I wasn't quite sure myself and what I found was only mentions of them having the Echo, but never the Blessing of Light.


Hmmm, it does have the same shape. Is the crystal she holds in that scene revealed at a previous point in the story? If so that might be the key to identifying whether it was a Crystal of Light.

Thanks Rannie and Absimiliard. Arenvald doesn't say it, but since Venat tells us that it's the Blessing of Light that's supposed to be the thing that prevents tempering then it's only logical to assume any sundered echo wielder also has the Blessing. Heck it's the thing Nidhana is testing when she gives us that lantern. Which also means that those with the resonate also have a copied version of the Blessing.

I'm not sure if she's ever seen holding a crystal at any other point of time.

[LilimoLimomo]

since Venat tells us that it's the Blessing of Light that's supposed to be the thing that prevents tempering then it's only logical to assume any sundered echo wielder also has the Blessing.

With respect, I disagree that this assumption is logical. Venat tells us that her traveller's ward prevents aetheric corruption, which means it prevents tempering; that's not the same as it being the only thing that prevents tempering. We've seen plenty of other means to prevent tempering, including radios and alchemically infused dragon scales. Multiple things can have the same effect.

At the very least, the Heavensward writers claimed that the Echo prevented tempering. They even had Y'sthola — a character who has always been a reliable source of information and has never been framed as wrong about any lore/science/world-building she's said — be one of the characters to express it.

Ysayle (talking about the WoL fighting Ravanna): "Wait. Forename need not face this foe alone. Like him, I am blessed with the Echo's protection, and may do battle without fear of primal influence. Let me bear this burden."

Y'shtola (talking to about Krile and WoL entering Sephirot's priosn): "Indeed. Given the nature of our adversary, none save those under the aegis of the Echo should be permitted to enter the containment facility. The risk of primal influence is too great."

Using Occam's Razor, I feel like it makes sense to trust the writers' words that the Echo protects against tempering; that explains why everyone with the Echo — from the WoL to Ysayle to Arvenald to Fordola to Zenos to Fandaniel — can't be tempered with a single elegant stroke, without making any assumptions about who also has the Blessing of Light or who has some other special case that we have to make further assumptions about.

Though honestly, the more I research this, the less clear it becomes. In reality life is complex, but when it comes to good writing and world-building, a debate like this shouldn't be necessary. We can probably try to define what the Echo and the Blessing of Light are, but more true than any of those definitions is that over the course of FF14's history, various writers at various times have had different, perhaps even contradictory ideas about what the Echo and Blessing of Light are. And the result is that the text we are left with is convoluted and confusing because there isn't just one truth, there are several truths depending on where you're looking.

[LilimoLimomo]

The Echo
- Let’s you see into someone/something’s past (can be controlled apparently)
- Resist primal/corrupting influence (or impose your own influence in the case of resonant)
- A Universal translator
- Some users have unique ability

In addition, there are some other qualities of the Echo that the WoL hasn't used yet (and may never use) but are worth mentioning as canonically being part of it:
- The ability to prevent your soul from returning to the Lifestream after death, and instead take control of another body.
- The ability to fuse with another person, as igeyorhmand Lahabrea demonstrate (as well as Lahabrea and Athena).

[Absimiliard]

In addition, there are some other qualities of the Echo that the WoL hasn't used yet (and may never use) but are worth mentioning as canonically being part of it:
- The ability to prevent your soul from returning to the Lifestream after death, and instead take control of another body.
- The ability to fuse with another person, as igeyorhmand Lahabrea demonstrate (as well as Lahabrea and Athena).

The Echo does not mean full access to abilities displayed by the ancients. As its name implies, it's little more than a faint echo of what its holders' past selves once wielded.

The unsundered Ascians retained most, if not all of their original power in this regard. Fragmented Ascians appeared to gain access to an abnormal amount of their former power after being "elevated." As for Zenos; his artificial Echo (at least before they seemingly partly walked it back in EW) seemed to be giving him many abilities beyond those present within a "natural" Echo, more specifically abilities we would typically attribute to Ascians.