Mamool Ja's Broken English

[Eisi]

Yo!

So I assume in Tural they speak a different language right? Cause the Mamool Ja have problems with Eorzean/English and speak a grammatically broken version more often than not.

So unless everyone in Tural speaks English BUT the Mamool Ja, which is highly unlikely given the fact that they are living in a diverse society in which everyone would interact in the same tongue most probably that means that that tongue is different from Eorzean/English.

Meaning that if WE want to communicate with the people in Tural WE should learn their language first rather than assume they all speak English/Eorzean. Or maybe use auto-translator magic.

Am I missing something?

Will this be glossed over?

Will this be beautifully integrated?

Do I care too much?

[Cleretic]

My read has generally been that the Mamool Ja we've seen are speaking in broken Eorzean. The Echo can translate languages (evidently both ways, or else we'd have been pretty screwed for half of Stormblood), but it can't do much to clean things up when they aren't speaking clearly in the first place. Over in Tural the Mamool Ja will be speaking their mother tongue, so it'll be fine.

Alternatively, maybe that's just the Mamool Ja's thing, like how the sylphs struggle with names and first-person pronouns. Perhaps the Mamool Ja are perfectly intelligent, but don't feel the need to express that via complex language. If one or two words will get your point across perfectly fine, why structure a whole sentence around it?

[kaynide]

My read has generally been that the Mamool Ja we've seen are speaking in broken Eorzean. The Echo can translate languages (evidently both ways, or else we'd have been pretty screwed for half of Stormblood), but it can't do much to clean things up when they aren't speaking clearly in the first place. Over in Tural the Mamool Ja will be speaking their mother tongue, so it'll be fine.

Alternatively, maybe that's just the Mamool Ja's thing, like how the sylphs struggle with names and first-person pronouns. Perhaps the Mamool Ja are perfectly intelligent, but don't feel the need to express that via complex language. If one or two words will get your point across perfectly fine, why structure a whole sentence around it?

Just to add, for all we know the Mamool Ja might not communicate exclusively via verbal means. That is to say, as lizard-types, they might use smells/body language/color flashes.

Entirely speculation, but this would suggest why certain expressions are entirely unspoken.

[Alleluia]

My read has generally been that the Mamool Ja we've seen are speaking in broken Eorzean. The Echo can translate languages (evidently both ways, or else we'd have been pretty screwed for half of Stormblood), but it can't do much to clean things up when they aren't speaking clearly in the first place. Over in Tural the Mamool Ja will be speaking their mother tongue, so it'll be fine.

Alternatively, maybe that's just the Mamool Ja's thing, like how the sylphs struggle with names and first-person pronouns. Perhaps the Mamool Ja are perfectly intelligent, but don't feel the need to express that via complex language. If one or two words will get your point across perfectly fine, why structure a whole sentence around it?

Just to add, for all we know the Mamool Ja might not communicate exclusively via verbal means. That is to say, as lizard-types, they might use smells/body language/color flashes.

Entirely speculation, but this would suggest why certain expressions are entirely unspoken.

I like this explanation. Explains some of the other races’ verbal quirks too.

[KageTokage]

Almost every spoken race in Etheriys seems to conveniently know Common for...some reason, so I don't think there's going to be any real issue there.

The dragons are the only ones we've seen who don't seem to necessarily know common, but their ability to use telepathy suggests it's strictly a formality used to make communication more comfortable for the mortal races, whether by conveying their intent in common like Vidofnir or actually speaking it in Vrtra's case.

[Zero-ELEC]

Don't forget that a lot of the tribes we encounter are meant to speak their own languages and are either translated to "Eorzean" by the Echo or speak "Eorzean" weird, which implies grammar and linguistic stuff from their original languages. That was one of the reasons why people with the Echo were singled out by the Garleans or something, since they "spoke" the language of the Beast Tribes or some such... Or maybe this is all fanon that has been passed on as authentic.

[Eisi]

Don't forget that a lot of the tribes we encounter are meant to speak their own languages and are either translated to "Eorzean" by the Echo or speak "Eorzean" weird, which implies grammar and linguistic stuff from their original languages. That was one of the reasons why people with the Echo were singled out by the Garleans or something, since they "spoke" the language of the Beast Tribes or some such... Or maybe this is all fanon that has been passed on as authentic.

This is why I wrote:

unless everyone in Tural speaks English BUT the Mamool Ja, which is highly unlikely given the fact that they are living in a diverse society in which everyone would interact in the same tongue most probably that means that that tongue is different from Eorzean/English.

So are we supposed to believe that the Mamool Ja who not only intermingle with other tribes but in fact do so on a day-to-day basis and rule their entire empire speak "Common" with a specific quirk while the other inhabitants of Tural do not? What are they too alien to properly learn the basic language of communication of their own homeland where they are perfectly integrated and make the king?

Because this is what it's gonna be peepz, I'm calling it. They will still speak broken English even though the story now positions them as living in the middle of and atop a society where "Common" is the norm.

[LilimoLimomo]

Almost every spoken race in Etheriys seems to conveniently know Common for...
I never really got the impression there was much of a language barrier between the beastmen and human races, though, as we see them communicating with non-Echo bearers rather routinely and the Gajasura tribe of the Matanga are the only ones specifically noted as having difficulty with the common tongue, which led to them being discriminated against by the Garleans.

In the 1.x story, all of the tribes spoke their own distinct languages that all but prohibited their ability to communicate with the "player races". Minfilia's organization at that time, The Path of the Twelve, had the goal of communicating with the tribes to try to facilitate peace; to achieve that goal, the organization was mostly made up of people with the Echo, since Echo-users can understand any sentient being regardless of language-barriers. And because of their ability to communicate with these tribes, at this point in the story Garlean policy treated those with the Echo as if they were members of these tribes (which is to say, they were free to oppress them).

However, by the time 2.0 comes around, nearly everyone is speaking the same language (or at least understanding each other). I'm not sure if there's explicit lore around this, but my interpretation has been that the additional soul density from the Rejoining somehow facilitated this new threshold of understanding.

So are we supposed to believe that the Mamool Ja who not only intermingle with other tribes but in fact do so on a day-to-day basis and rule their entire empire speak "Common" with a specific quirk while the other inhabitants of Tural do not? What are they too alien to properly learn the basic language of communication of their own homeland where they are perfectly integrated and make the king?

With respect, I think this is making a lot of assumptions about how monolithic the Mamool Ja are. It's entirely possible that Mamool Ja in Eorzea speak in a different dialect compared to Mamool Ja in Tural. For example, Sharlayans and Lominsans of the same race speak with wildly different dialects, and this follows with how language works in the real world, where the environment you were raised in is going to be the primary determining factor of how you speak, not your biology.

That said, if the writers decide that yes, all Mamool Ja talk the same, it wouldn't be a surprise because generally speaking that's how they often treat dialect; even in integrated communities, so-called "beast" races tend to speak in a distinct dialect compared to the "player races" that otherwise comprise their communities. I assume they think it adds spice to the writing, even if it defies sociology. Just remember that this game was written by imperfect humans who didn't entirely understand the ramifications of the words they wrote at the time they wrote them.

[Eisi]

You are literally inventing a problem to get angry at. I don't know how you can't make sense of that.

What problem? There is no problem at all unless you think the game not having an explanation for everything is a problem. Here:

That said, if the writers decide that yes, all Mamool Ja talk the same, it wouldn't be a surprise because generally speaking that's how they often treat dialect; even in integrated communities, so-called "beast" races tend to speak in a distinct dialect compared to the "player races" that otherwise comprise their communities. I assume they think it adds spice to the writing, even if it defies sociology. Just remember that this game was written by imperfect humans who didn't entirely understand the ramifications of the words they wrote at the time they wrote them.

One hundo percent true.

[KageTokage]

Echo bearers in ARR were being sought out by the Garleans mostly for their ability to deal with primals.

I never really got the impression there was much of a language barrier between the beastmen and human races, though, as we see them communicating with non-Echo bearers rather routinely and the Gajasura tribe of the Matanga are the only ones specifically noted as having difficulty with the common tongue, which led to them being discriminated against by the Garleans.