[6.0 - 6.4 Spoilers] An interesting video detailing Venat's polarizing reception

[Xeronia]

I've only ever seen your side of this "debate" doing that. Your side does complain a lot about being downvoted on places like reddit but that's simply because when you all are asked why you don't like the character, you either make up some stuff or forget key moments that addressed the issue a lot of you claim to have. When this is pointed out some of you get really rude. Not to mention some of you bring up these arguments again and again in places that aren't talking about the issue. I've yet to see any and I'm sure you have some screenshots just like yall do to try and defend your points right?

I try my best to be polite as possible and stress I do understand why people like Venat but I personally find issues with her ideology and actions. I have in turn been called "A misogynistic man" "Unable to understand context /cutscene skipper" A weird one from that very video thread that got deleted of "SJW" and told I am an egotist for pointing out I find Venat in the same vain as clear villains that came before her. I have been told several times I don't speak for everyone even though I stress I am well aware of that and preface everything with "in my own opinion". I wouldn't exactly call it harassment but it sure as heck gets annoying especially when I am lumped with a group I am not a part of for my own independent thoughts. I have never joined anything relating to FFXIV's story as I personally felt I would rather focus on what I enjoy then mire myself in what I dislike but seeing the discussion come up I chimed in hoping no future story will ever be like this again in what I perceive to be an extreme narrative dissonance in regards to one character. My continued posting is because simply the quality of everything else I see as lacking.

As for why I don't like Venat I simply look at her actions much and can't go "This is different from Thordan lying to an entire populace, Venat had reason to not tell anyone and lie to them via omission" "This is different from Illberd killing hundreds to free his homeland, Venat knew these deaths were needed to secure the future". I simply can't bring myself to think any of that is okay given what came prior. I do understand where Venat is coming from and yes in her eyes this was probably the best solution but I simply can't say she would ever be what I consider justified or good. I do hope for the sake of everyone here we just leave this in Endwalker forever and move onto a less polarizing plot. I take no joy in posting stuff like this after all but I feel it is needed to avoid this in the future.

[T-rexpectation]

I’d say it’s pretty polarizing when you have defenders of the character going all over on other social media sites insulting bashing and harassing others simply for their views on the story. If it wasn’t so polarizing why would they feel the need to defend it so harshly?

First time posting on the forums, I just wanted to voice my opinions as a newcomer who beat endwalker last year.

I was randomly reccomended the video for no apparent reason(only really listen to ff14 music sometimes), and i decided to voice my disagreement in the comments. I was rebutted by both the channel's account and some other person who responded to every dessenting voice without fail. I had never expierienced this amount of engagement in a comment section before so I was really fascinated. Turns out I'm 2 years behind on this war the forums have had about Venat. Making 2 videos on other characters and then just making a bunch of Venat videos was bizarre until i realized it was supposed to be a safe space for what was essentially discourse refugees. Some of my favourite stories are incoherent messes, so I didn't really care if someone thought that about endwalker. That said, the really specific focus on Venat from her critics to the point of actively fearing backlash in social media is genuinely concerning to me. Are you guys okay?

[Absimiliard]

First time posting on the forums, I just wanted to voice my opinions as a newcomer who beat endwalker last year.

I was randomly reccomended the video for no apparent reason(only really listen to ff14 music sometimes), and i decided to voice my disagreement in the comments. I was rebutted by both the channel's account and some other person who responded to every dessenting voice without fail. I had never expierienced this amount of engagement in a comment section before so I was really fascinated. Turns out I'm 2 years behind on this war the forums have had about Venat. Making 2 videos on other characters and then just making a bunch of Venat videos was bizarre until i realized it was supposed to be a safe space for what was essentially discourse refugees. Some of my favourite stories are incoherent messes, so I didn't really care if someone thought that about endwalker. That said, the really specific focus on Venat from her critics to the point of actively fearing backlash in social media is genuinely concerning to me. Are you guys okay?

Mass reporting and threats, my dude. Some people take this game a little too seriously. Some vocal detractors of Endwalker and its characters, but in particular Venat, have met with types of backlash that come with actual consequences. Words on a screen screen can really only rustle somebody's jimmies if they allow it, but getting your accounts mass reported into oblivion because you had an opinion is something I think any reasonable person would agree is a problem, yeah? I'm not going to claim to know who was doing what when or whatever, but I can tell you from first hand experience some people were willing to get downright nasty over it.

As for the focus on Venat, I believe I can explain that reasonably well:
It's the double standard. It's pretty common for people to have an aversion to such things, and seeing it in action can (whether they realize it or not) leave them with a negative impression. In this particular instance, the issue I've seen people bring forward most often was simply how the narrative approached Venat's actions as compared how it approached the Ascians and their numerous misdeeds. At the end of the day, they all have more blood on their hands than any of us on these forums can possibly begin to comprehend. There's also the fact she played a key role in the story. You could swap Venat's role to just about any other character, and the discourse wouldn't change all that much other than a different name being thrown around.

For my two cents; my personal position on the matter has less to do with the double standard or Venat in particular and more to do with the writers seemingly walking back the morally grey angle they were setting up in Shadowbringers. Nuance in storytelling is something I'm rather fond of, and they did a pretty good job of setting it up. .... Then it largely went out the window.

[T-rexpectation]

Mass reporting and threats, my dude. Some people take this game a little too seriously. Some vocal detractors of Endwalker and its characters, but in particular Venat, have met with types of backlash that come with actual consequences. Words on a screen screen can really only rustle somebody's jimmies if they allow it, but getting your accounts mass reported into oblivion because you had an opinion is something I think any reasonable person would agree is a problem, yeah? I'm not going to claim to know who was doing what when or whatever, but I can tell you from first hand experience some people were willing to get downright nasty over it

That kind of behaviour is obviously inexcusable, and I'm sorry you expierienced such a thing because of a videogame opinion. I think what induces this amount of vitriol on the forums specifically, is that one, you're associated with your ingame avatar here to an extent that doesn't happen on other sites and two, the writers played fast and loose with the lore of the world that avatar lives in to complete their emotional storytelling. It seems to me that endwalker was written partly backwards like a Nier game with the player's emotions in mind. When it's like that, analysing sets of dialogue is just an exercise in frustration, because framing and music and other aesthetic elements aren't just important, but might have more weight than what characters say and do. Ultima Thule is this writing style made manifest, and it worked for most people I interact with online, (mostly reddit and youtube comment sections).

Venat gets not one but two songs dedicated to her. "with hearts alligned" is from the player's pespective and is basically a gratitude bomb for helping us get this far. The other is "flow" which paints Venat as a gentle observer watching the souls of mortal cycling through the Eitherial sea for the sake of a "tomorrow", which I intrepret to be the day we finally meet Meteion. All this including Yoshi-p crying again and again when watching the Hydaelyn confrontation seems to suggest to me that the game uses all of the tools at it's disposal to make liking and accepting Venat and her actions, "right", from an emotional and thematic standpoint. I understand how that might not work for poster on a lore forum, but I think the emotiononal "go with the flow" angle is the only real way to "get" endwalker the way millions of others have, but that's not everyone's cup of tea.

[Fenral]

That kind of behaviour is obviously inexcusable, and I'm sorry you expierienced such a thing because of a videogame opinion.

While I can't condone in-game harassment, I do suggest reading over this thread before you fully buy into the crocodile tears. (You won't be able to read any of the removed posts, but rest assured they were bad.) The mods here are silent entities who don't really act unless people cross very obvious harassment lines, but also won't act unless people report posts, and even then still may not. They won't simply ban people for unpopular opinions, and this can be observed: many accounts known for being very vocal with those opinions dropped back in to Lore simply to post in this thread.

[Iscah]

Venat gets not one but two songs dedicated to her. "with hearts alligned" is from the player's pespective and is basically a gratitude bomb for helping us get this far.

Is that the "Wings of Hope" song? I honestly never connected that to Hydaelyn. It only ever comes up in that final fight against the Endsinger and so seems connected to Meteion for me – a somewhat abstract, more hopeful vision of what she could be instead of this.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Harsh criticism of something people passionately enjoy will get an equally harsh rebuttal.

Just look at how criticism of Amaurotine civilization gets treated.

I’m not sure i would consider some of the personal threats and insults i’ve seen Venat defenders use as “equally harsh rebuttal” but you do you.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I've only ever seen your side of this "debate" doing that. Your side does complain a lot about being downvoted on places like reddit but that's simply because when you all are asked why you don't like the character, you either make up some stuff or forget key moments that addressed the issue a lot of you claim to have. When this is pointed out some of you get really rude. Not to mention some of you bring up these arguments again and again in places that aren't talking about the issue. I've yet to see any and I'm sure you have some screenshots just like yall do to try and defend your points right?

There’s already been screenshots posted. Of certain outspoken posters on here going and ranting about people disliking Venat, claiming misogyny amongst other things etc. You say people make up stuff or forget key moments yet we’ve provided countless info from in game sources to refute your claims, now with videos. So yeah, i’m sorry but when you have people seriously trying to use the issue of misogyny to defend their argument of a video game waifu there’s already a lost argument there. Amongst other worse insults used.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Many of those people have posted in this very thread. It's always been a very small number of them and they tend to show up every time the subject comes up saying the same things and round and round the circle goes. People saying you're wrong when you forget key moments is just how it is. Nothing to be hurt over Unless you believe one can have an opinion about a fact. You're perfectly allowed to believe that she didn't do enough, that's an opinion to have. However most of you don't voice it that way. They say she did nothing. Which just isn't true.

They are derailing threads you don't show up in a thread about say. what happened in Ultima Thule and go on and on about Venat. That's not on topic so no, probably keep to the topic of the thread and don't change it. This happens across multiple sites and it's always the Venat dislikers that do it From what I and many people in this thread can attest to. I've yet to see the side you claim there is.

Most people would use that word for a handful of people with a strong opinion about an event in a game millions have played. Call it polarizing on these specific forums, sure but in the wider community? Not at all.
Words have meaning, context does as well.

@above. I've been through the thread the some guy saying that the person said something along those lines in a completely different thread or where ever it was said isn't proof of anything. They just said it and you believe them I guess. From what I've seen none of your in game screenshots support your side and again, you leave out the other stuff that disproves your side. Hence why people say you make stuff up. Lies by omission they're called.

Oh yes none of our in game screenshots support our side. Gee guess the videos with literal in game cutscenes supporting our points don’t exist or don’t count. It’s not just that they’ve said it and i believe them. I’ve seen the screenshots of evidence. I’ve seen the actual posts lol. It’s not hard to find whatsoever especially when said person literally uses our names in the posts itself.

[thegreatonemal]

Oh yes none of our in game screenshots support our side. Gee guess the videos with literal in game cutscenes supporting our points don’t exist or don’t count. It’s not just that they’ve said it and i believe them. I’ve seen the screenshots of evidence. I’ve seen the actual posts lol. It’s not hard to find whatsoever especially when said person literally uses our names in the posts itself.

The hour long video is full of bias and was made in bad faith. Someone in this thread already explained to you why that was so I don't feel the need to repeat it. Again, when you twist and or leave out things that give a bigger context to what is being said is no different from lying. Elidabus as a character was fond of doing that. Kinda the reason he was my favorite among the three unsundered.