Thread: [6.0 - 6.4 Spoilers] An interesting video detailing Venat's polarizing reception

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Well exactly. But that’s why i scoff at the idea that people really think her trusting her people and confiding in them and believing in them was any more of a gamble than relying on a single person she only just met with a plan that required 10k years of suffering and billions of lives being lost.

Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy
But here's my blessing of light, so call me, maybe.

I'm more inclined to believe that we are not the first incarnation of Azem on the source since the sundering, and we've been honed in to our current form over the ages. We're less some random adventurer and more the Chosen One (tm). Look back on the events and history of Minfillia and Ryne's line of girls after the flood was stopped.

Hydaelyn was cooking for quite some time with these shards of Azem.

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy
But here's my blessing of light, so call me, maybe.

I'm more inclined to believe that we are not the first incarnation of Azem on the source since the sundering, and we've been honed in to our current form over the ages. We're less some random adventurer and more the Chosen One (tm). Look back on the events and history of Minfillia and Ryne's line of girls after the flood was stopped.

Hydaelyn was cooking for quite some time with these shards of Azem.

While not explicitly stated, it's strongly implied every Warrior of Light (or "main" Warrior of Light for those instances where it was an entire team) has been a shard of Azem. It is only a case of "chosen one" in that Venat knew from the Elpis encounter a shard of Azem would be a necessity. The WoL being abnormally powerful is nothing more and nothing less than an extension of who their soul originally was; the blessing of light -- or traveler's ward, as it should be called -- only protects them from having their aether disrupted by outside sources.

The above said, we are given no reason to believe Venat took an active effort in shaping the WoL beyond providing her ward and some minor direction whenever a shard of Azem happened to appear. She had no way of knowing with precision when or where these shards would even appear, relying largely on what she'd learned in Elpis. Granted, one could make the argument her involvement in and of itself counts on some level, even if only in the sense she knew they would need to act (and die) in specific ways to prevent the timeline from going askew.

Originally Posted by Absimiliard

While not explicitly stated, it's strongly implied every Warrior of Light (or "main" Warrior of Light for those instances where it was an entire team) has been a shard of Azem. It is only a case of "chosen one" in that Venat knew from the Elpis encounter a shard of Azem would be a necessity. The WoL being abnormally powerful is nothing more and nothing less than an extension of who their soul originally was; the blessing of light -- or traveler's ward, as it should be called -- only protects them from having their aether disrupted by outside sources.

The above said, we are given no reason to believe Venat took an active effort in shaping the WoL beyond providing her ward and some minor direction whenever a shard of Azem happened to appear. She had no way of knowing with precision when or where these shards would even appear, relying largely on what she'd learned in Elpis. Granted, one could make the argument her involvement in and of itself counts on some level, even if only in the sense she knew they would need to act (and die) in specific ways to prevent the timeline from going askew.

See here Mr Nosferatu :>, you contradict this wisdom in your first sentence, and is disproven in ShB since Eldibus-Et-Ardbert body awaken's many people upon the first to being "Warriors of Light" then afterwards we have a whole dungeon where we fight other self-same created "Warriors of Light" including but not limited to a certain Gentleman of Light whom exists at the same time as us, and is definitely not our shard. Similarly there have been many "Warriors of Light" whom are not Azem across the expansions, such as the Zodiac Braves Mustadio, Agrias, and Ramza, whom aren't shards as well. Warrior of Light, just as Warrior of Darkness are just terms used as titles denoting a special type of adventurer, and is not intrinsically tied to the rebirth of the convocation member Azem.

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

See here Mr Nosferatu :>, you contradict this wisdom in your first sentence, and is disproven in ShB since Eldibus-Et-Ardbert body awaken's many people upon the first to being "Warriors of Light" then afterwards we have a whole dungeon where we fight other self-same created "Warriors of Light" including but not limited to a certain Gentleman of Light whom exists at the same time as us, and is definitely not our shard. Similarly there have been many "Warriors of Light" whom are not Azem across the expansions, such as the Zodiac Braves Mustadio, Agrias, and Ramza, whom aren't shards as well. Warrior of Light, just as Warrior of Darkness are just terms used as titles denoting a special type of adventurer, and is not intrinsically tied to the rebirth of the convocation member Azem.

There is a difference between "warriors of light" and "the Warrior of Light." What I am referring to specifically are the instances in which a uniquely powerful individual, whether alone or accompanied by a particular group, rose up to combat X thing. There have indeed been many warriors of light. I in no way asserted or implied the title was unique to Azem. I am asserting "the" Warrior of Light has always been Azem's shard, and the game does seem to support this stance. For example, we're told outright about an outstanding individual being present at the turning of point of each age. While they always fell in the end, there was none the less someone special there taking the fight to whatever scheme the Ascians were trying to wreck the world with that particular time.

What Elidibus did to those people was draw out their vague memories of the original world's fall, after which many of them chose to set out on a life of adventure. None of them had any kind of special protection. They were just people that had their echo awoken.

Originally Posted by Absimiliard

There is a difference between "warriors of light" and "the Warrior of Light." What I am referring to specifically are the instances in which a uniquely powerful individual, whether alone or accompanied by a particular group, rose up to combat X thing. There have indeed been many warriors of light. I in no way asserted or implied the title was unique to Azem. I am asserting "the" Warrior of Light has always been Azem's shard, and the game does seem to support this stance. For example, we're told outright about an outstanding individual being present at the turning of point of each age. While they always fell in the end, there was none the less someone special there taking the fight to whatever scheme the Ascians were trying to wreck the world with that particular time.

What Elidibus did to those people was draw out their vague memories of the original world's fall, after which many of them chose to set out on a life of adventure. None of them had any kind of special protection. They were just people that had their echo awoken.

Our character has three things.

1. The Echo. This allows us to communicate with everyone, and gives us a small bit of precognition (seeing attack markers in battle.)
2. The Blessing of Light/Traveler's Ward This allows us to resist tempering and the some mental influences.
3. The Soul of Azem. This allows us to have more raw (physical/magical/aetherical/dynamic) power than everyone else. The reason we can break our limits so easily, and the capacity to be every job, at max capacity at all times.

Only 1 and 2 are specifically associated with the Warrior of Light. 3 is specific to us an our incarnations.

For example, Ramza was the Warrior of Light in his age. He would have had 1 and 2. He did not have 3. He was able to, on the source, co-exist as us (even for a short while) during the fight against Ultima the High Seraph before fading away with the rest of the Zodiac Braves of his era. In accordance, St Ajora, the one who is said to have summoned Ultima the HIgh Seraph was also supposedly the Warrior of Light, though this is most likely a fabrication by the Church of Kiltia.

Originally Posted by WellGramarye

Our character has three things.

1. The Echo. This allows us to communicate with everyone, and gives us a small bit of precognition (seeing attack markers in battle.)
2. The Blessing of Light/Traveler's Ward This allows us to resist tempering and the some mental influences.
3. The Soul of Azem. This allows us to have more raw (physical/magical/aetherical/dynamic) power than everyone else. The reason we can break our limits so easily, and the capacity to be every job, at max capacity at all times.

Only 1 and 2 are specifically associated with the Warrior of Light. 3 is specific to us an our incarnations.

For example, Ramza was the Warrior of Light in his age. He would have had 1 and 2. He did not have 3. He was able to, on the source, co-exist as us (even for a short while) during the fight against Ultima the High Seraph before fading away with the rest of the Zodiac Braves of his era. In accordance, St Ajora, the one who is said to have summoned Ultima the HIgh Seraph was also supposedly the Warrior of Light, though this is most likely a fabrication by the Church of Kiltia.

Which is precisely the point I am making. The one serving as the game's player-character is not the first incarnation of Azem's soul on the Source. We're lead to believe one has been present at the end of each era. In other words, it appears there was an incarnation of Azem present for each Calamity. I didn't say everyone Venat gave the traveler's ward to was his shard. I'm saying the hero present at the climax of each age was the same guy in different lives, and that my use of "THE" Warrior of Light referred specifically to that individual in the context I provided in my previous posts. I'm sure there were other incarnations, but we've not had info regarding them. There's a fan theory Tenzen could've been one of Azem's reincarnations, but I don't believe it was ever definitively proven.

As for Ramza; he was indisputably a Warrior of Light, but he was not the only one of that time.

I've always kinda hoped they would put out more information about the Calamities. I'd be rather fascinating to learn how each played out, not to mention how the main character's previous lives came to an end.

That's the rub of this particular term. Early in FFXIV's life it was used exclusively to mean the player character, but this has been expanded and compounded on where it doesn't quite mean the same thing anymore. We're arguing the same point but just in a different way. IMO the player is less the Warrior of Light anymore, since the term was diluted so much, after the Shadowbringer's era and should just be the Bearer of Azem, when we're talking about a specific incarnation soul, because these things are not mutually exclusive. Most likely there were plenty of incarnations who did not become a Warrior of Light and chose another path. 12000 years is a long time to cycle through for races that typically live <120 years.