What Healer kit (not encounter) change would make GCD heals NOT bad gameplay?

[Supersnow845]

^this is my thought, broil spam while weaving lustrate is the same as adlo spam while weaving broil unless you are super into the class fantasy of “pure healing” (in which case damage will likely be low on your list of priorities)

[Darkmoonrise]

That's true but with this solution there is :

• the rotation that needs to be followed, like the rotation for DPS role.
• the switching between single target heal rotation and aoe heal rotation because of constant aoe damage
• the gimmick to weave in
• the ogcds to weave in

But you're right by saying that a better balance between heal and dps, to force a switch between heal and dps rotation is a good idea. We could enforce that by giving a heal buff at the end of a DPS rotation for instance. This could add more diversity on button pressing.

[Supersnow845]

I can’t imagine a situation where they could both make healing interesting and also allow for a static healing rotation, because they would have to tailor the fights exactly to the healing rotation which makes healing a nothing burger

Like imagine if they decided to time a random mechanic to be AOE when you are in your “spam adlo” part of your rotation

a DPS rotation that gives a healing buff afterwards sounds like a decent idea but I can see it being unwieldy (sort of like a modern cleric stance)

[Aravell]

Thinking about it more, a healing rotation could work if we use MNK as a framework. A ST heal rotation and an AoE heal rotation that you could swap between at will depending on the situation at hand. But such a rotation would be basically nothing unless they add interesting effects to each spell in the combo.

So like:
1 > 2 > 3 for the ST rotation
4 > 5 > 6 for the AoE rotation

Then you can go 1 > 5 > 3 if you need an AoE heal in between the ST heals. Could be interesting, but could also end up being very bad if not done properly.

[Supersnow845]

Thinking about it more, a healing rotation could work if we use MNK as a framework. A ST heal rotation and an AoE heal rotation that you could swap between at will depending on the situation at hand. But such a rotation would be basically nothing unless they add interesting effects to each spell in the combo.

So like:
1 > 2 > 3 for the ST rotation
4 > 5 > 6 for the AoE rotation

Then you can go 1 > 5 > 3 if you need an AoE heal in between the ST heals. Could be interesting, but could also end up being very bad if not done properly.

What’s the functional difference between that and the original proposal of “spam GCD healing and weave damage” if a “rotation” can be broken at will based on changing needs in the fight

Like sure you could argue medica -> medica 2 -> cure 3 is a rotation but if you can replace the medica 2 with cure 2 at will is it even really a rotation

[GoatOfWar]

That's true but with this solution there is :

• the rotation that needs to be followed, like the rotation for DPS role.
• the switching between single target heal rotation and aoe heal rotation because of constant aoe damage
• the gimmick to weave in
• the ogcds to weave in

But you're right by saying that a better balance between heal and dps, to force a switch between heal and dps rotation is a good idea. We could enforce that by giving a heal buff at the end of a DPS rotation for instance. This could add more diversity on button pressing.

They would also have to change every single encounter in the game, and address mana economies across the board to make this work in the first place.
What you're asking for puts out a metric shit ton of healing that isn't ever going to be required.
It would be much easier to just give healers their damage buttons back because they were meant to spend most of their time dealing damage, from the ground up.

[Aravell]

What’s the functional difference between that and the original proposal of “spam GCD healing and weave damage” if a “rotation” can be broken at will based on changing needs in the fight

Like sure you could argue medica -> medica 2 -> cure 3 is a rotation but if you can replace the medica 2 with cure 2 at will is it even really a rotation

I did mention MNK framework, their rotation is interchangeable depending on what they need at the moment. I also mentioned that it would be effectively pointless unless they added interesting effects to each spell.

[ty_taurus]

I did mention MNK framework, their rotation is interchangeable depending on what they need at the moment. I also mentioned that it would be effectively pointless unless they added interesting effects to each spell.

A healing combo is likely something that would almost never be used. Like I can think of using something like that maybe in Harrowing Hell, but even in Savage you almost never need 3 heals back-to-back. It’d go completely unused in regular content.

[Aravell]

A healing combo is likely something that would almost never be used. Like I can think of using something like that maybe in Harrowing Hell, but even in Savage you almost never need 3 heals back-to-back. It’d go completely unused in regular content.

It'll greatly depend on the way it's implemented and whether or not the healing requirements is increased, I'm just entertaining the possibility of such a system. But I agree that it would be completely worthless in current design.

[ty_taurus]

It'll greatly depend on the way it's implemented and whether or not the healing requirements is increased, I'm just entertaining the possibility of such a system. But I agree that it would be completely worthless in current design.

I just don't think it's feasible to increase healing requirements enough. There is absolutely room to increase the frequency of healing needed on some level, but consider that current savage and the last tier as well never ask for back-to-back healing like that outside of very specific mechanics that are usually designed for Lilturgy/Panhaima/Macrocosmos to resolve by themselves (Or Harrowing Hell). By a combination of increasing damage frequency, reducing healing output, or increasing max HP pools and the amount of damage taken, you'd need to exceed that standard of healing requirements even in more casual content to actually provide a use to a 1-2-3 healing combo, and that threshold of damage is one that has pushed our community to its limits.

That said, something I've been thinking about lately is a way the lily system could be different and not promote so much overhealing, and the idea goes like this: Instead of Solace and Rapture being flat heals, we have three lily actions. I'll use some blunt names for the sake of simplicity.

Afflatus Fast Cast - Makes your next spell instant cast. Costs 1 lily and nourishes the blood lily. Also grants 1 stack of Growth.
Afflatus MP - Causes your next spell to restore your MP by an amount equal to its MP Cost. Costs 1 lily and nourishes the blood . Also grants 1 stack of Growth.
Afflatus Healing - Increases the potency of your next healing spell by 30%. Costs 1 lily and nourishes the blood lily. Also grants 1 sack of Growth.
Growth effect: If your next spell cast is a healing spell, that spell also nourishes the blood lily.

In other words, it's a soft 1-2 heal combo where you augment a heal before activating it all while staying DPS neutral. How do you feel about something like that?