The Stormblood Capstone fight pretty much killed my enthusiasm with the game.

[Aldath]

Okay, let me explain the situation. Long post incoming, I need to vent. I've mentioned this in other posts: I'm a new player, but I've been a long time fan. I started playing three months ago and took my sweet time to get some classes I enjoyed to 60/70. Although many things are new to me, I know of the evolution of this game just because I lurked the subreddit, watched videos and read news about it since it became ARR. I used to play GW2 but I jumped into XIV because people praised how devs kept older content relevant and how it was regularily played. That might have been an exaggeration.

I was really surprised at how easy ARR trials were, but I kept going and I found the new Ultima battle an excelent finale, and the pre-HW dungeons were actually fun (at first). HW felt a little more balanced and I was really excited for what was to come.

And then Thordan happened.

After the battle with Ascian Prime, I was expecting Thordan to surpass it and I think you all know what happened next. That's when I decided to read on what people thought about Thordan and found out not only he was dissapointing during launch, but every single capstone fight, even the most recent Endsinger one, has become so easy some people has to open PF for synced groups or ask the party to go easy to avoid skipping entire segments. I was even more surprised to find out the Alexander Raid contained only three encounters that didn't outright explode by auto attacking them; by that time I even stopped reading guides before entering instanced content because I wouldn't even get to do many of the mentioned mechanics. The Void Ark Alliance Raid series gave me hope as it was fun and challenging without being overwhelming, and the patch dungeons and Nidhogg battle were actually really fun despite being on the easier side and I don't mind doing them whenever they pop in roulette. From there, I was sure SB would improve because HW's content, besides Thordan, wasn't all that bad.

SB happened. The first three dungeons were fun and I had no issue with the bosses as you actually get to see what they do and they had interesting mechanics, but after that even dungeons, which so far had ironically been more challenging than the trials, also started becoming victim to the "the boss dies before it gets to do anything" syndrome. It was a joy to see FFVI and VII bosses in the Garlean facilities, except I still don't know why you should hurry and kill the Tank Dispatcher hand before it reaches Inferno because people just burn him to the ground before it even matters. At least Susano and Lakshmi were fun and didn't die in two minutes.

[Aldath]

When I reached Shinryu I was ready to try suggestions from the subreddit. I joined a Synced content Discord, opened a PF, and even used Yell in Limsa and Uldah to invite people into the capstone fight (a strategy that accorting to the subreddit works all the time). 40 minutes in PF, advertised in said Discord. Nothing, not a soul. I decided to suck it up and queue in DF, and try to ask the friendliest community in MMO space to go easy because I would like to experience the capstone fight.

"Hi! This is my first time fighting Shinryu! Mind if we go easy on him so I can experience the capstone fight mechanics?"
"I don't know how to read, sorry, so I won't do whatever you asked"

So much for the friendliest community. I understand you want your tomestones, just don't be an arse about it. I said nothing, proceeded to fight. I expected nothing from Shinryu at that point and I still got dissapointed. The cherry on top?

"Unfortunate". The dude drops that before leaving.

To make it even better I enter the forums and see that people now are skipping Aglaia's balance mechanic just by playing decently, and that's still far from SB. I had hopes that content would scale better at the very least in Alliance Raids/Raids and Trials, but it seems it won't. I'm not a hardcore player, I don't even think content is necessarily "mindlessly designed" because the fights that don't instantly die are at the very least fun, it's just that the scaling is so awful that it makes fun things feel trivial, like chores. I love getting Susano and Alexander Prime in roulette; I know we are always gonna clear but the mechanics are fun and the fights are exciting. I hate getting any ARR trial not because we are always gonna clear, but because there's nothing to them.

I'm not asking for a difficulty increase, I believe the boss mechanics are good enough as they are, I'm just baffled that CBU3 and SE, with all the damn resources they get from subs and cash shop, for some unknown reason, only decided to adjust ONE capstone fight. They haven't took the time to future proof the experience and ensure that newer players till be able to learn as they play and enjoy older content. Yoshi-P once said they don't like people skipping content they worked so hard to make, but they do absolutely nothing to keep it interesting. Discord PF for EX content isn't a solution, it's just a very dirty, peeling bandaid with barely any glue left.

I'm at a point where I even doubt Yotsuyu and the Four Lords will be fun, that Omega raids won't explode, and that I would get to do Rabanastre after tomestone event ends. Just thinking that by the time I make it to EW I'll be in the exact same situation as now feels disencouraging.

[AmiableApkallu]

I'm not asking for a difficulty increase, I believe the boss mechanics are good enough as they are, I'm just baffled that CBU3 and SE, with all the damn resources they get from subs and cash shop, for some unknown reason, only decided to adjust ONE capstone fight.

To a first approximation, the answer is simple: ilvl sync. For example:

• ARR capstone: At Lv.50, your max ilvl is 130/135. The trial has a min ilvl of 42 and syncs you down to 60. Everyone is, at best, only 18 ilvls over the minimum.
• HW capstone: At Lv.60, your max ilvl is 270/275. The trial has a min ilvl of 142 and does not sync you down. A lot of folk will be a whopping 128 ilvls over the minimum.

You can probably guess how "true to its original design" content will be in practice by comparing the gap between the min ilvl required and the max ilvl you're allowed to enter in as.

I have no idea why SE doesn't put ilvl syncs on more content.

[Deceptus]

To a first approximation, the answer is simple: ilvl sync. For example:

• ARR capstone: At Lv.50, your max ilvl is 130/135. The trial has a min ilvl of 42 and syncs you down to 60. Everyone is, at best, only 18 ilvls over the minimum.
• HW capstone: At Lv.60, your max ilvl is 270/275. The trial has a min ilvl of 142 and does not sync you down. A lot of folk will be a whopping 128 ilvls over the minimum.

You can probably guess how "true to its original design" content will be in practice by comparing the gap between the min ilvl required and the max ilvl you're allowed to enter in as.

I have no idea why SE doesn't put ilvl syncs on more content.

They have a bit over the years

ARR: difference between min ilvl and max is essentially double, almost triple. 55 (artifact gear) to 130 (ironworks).
HW: difference between min ilvl and max is roughly 80%. 148 min ilv (Gubal) to 270 (Aug Shire).
SB: difference between min ilvl and max is roughly 25%. 288 (Valerian) to 360 (Scaeven)

From SB on, the difference between the capstone ilvl (70,80,90) and the max ilvl of the expansion isn't much at all. 20% or so.

[AmiableApkallu]

What I can definitely say is that there have been times in the past when in my opinion CBU3 has missed the mark for casual content in MSQ. For example, on release "Seat of Sacrifice" is exactly the kind of content I'd like to satisfy my "midcore" needs; needless button-mashing aside, it hit the sweet spot for me and was meaningfully more difficult than the bulk of other MSQ content. And I saw this reflected in my casual friends' experiences as well, as trying to do this content on released stressed them out and resulted in them waiting longer to reach the conclusion of a story they were really into.

I'm curious. How many lockouts or days or weeks did they have to spend trying to get past Seat of Sacrifice?

But I would also say that the improved gearing also improves knowledgeable players' ability to carry the newer/less-experienced players who are beating it for the first time.

Yes, improved gearing helps people in combat. That's a truism barely worth mentioning.

Min ilvl runs of Endwalker's final trial clear on the first pull -- with a first timer or two, a few folk who maybe remember the fight, and a few folk who know it well. What exactly does gear have to do with that? That's the point.

[LilimoLimomo]

I'm not asking for a difficulty increase, I believe the boss mechanics are good enough as they are, I'm just baffled that CBU3 and SE, with all the damn resources they get from subs and cash shop, for some unknown reason, only decided to adjust ONE capstone fight. They haven't took the time to future proof the experience and ensure that newer players till be able to learn as they play and enjoy older content.

With respect, you are indirectly asking for a difficulty increase. And I understand why you are asking for it: you want your experience to be closer to the way content was when it was initially released. Your personal preference is not unreasonable.

The part that I'd hazard you are failing to recognize is that not everyone wants a challenge. Statistically, most players are pretty solidly on the casual side, and such players generally want a nearly frictionless experience. And for these players, iLevels increasing with each new expansion so that over time fights become easier is an important part of this game; I know numerous players who intentionally wait a few extra patches before doing MSQ content so that the trials won't be as hard. A design that locks in the difficulty of fights at a specific point forever leaves such players behind. And that's not only bad for those players, but bad for the game, because the financial lifeblood of any AAA game is its casual players.

Thankfully, you can still get that old-school experience, you just can't force that experience on others. Rather, find some like-minded players who want to opt into it with you. If you advertise during peak times on a weekend, I'd be surprised if you wouldn't be able to fill a group or at least generate a contact list full of players looking for a meatier experience like yourself. I see people doing PF's for Min iLevel content all the time, and you could probably even make friends with these people so you have a catalogue of comrades to do such content with.

I hope this helps to explain why the game is the way it is, and gets you closer to getting the kind of experiences you want. Best of luck, friend!

[SannaR]

With respect, you are indirectly asking for a difficulty increase. And I understand why you are asking for it: you want your experience to be closer to the way content was when it was initially released. Your personal preference is not unreasonable.

The part that I'd hazard you are failing to recognize is that not everyone wants a challenge. Statistically, most players are pretty solidly on the casual side, and such players generally want a nearly frictionless experience. And for these players, iLevels increasing with each new expansion so that over time fights become easier is an important part of this game; I know numerous players who intentionally wait a few extra patches before doing MSQ content so that the trials won't be as hard. A design that locks in the difficulty of fights at a specific point forever leaves such players behind. And that's not only bad for those players, but bad for the game, because the financial lifeblood of any AAA game is its casual players.

Thankfully, you can still get that old-school experience, you just can't force that experience on others. Rather, find some like-minded players who want to opt into it with you. If you advertise during peak times on a weekend, I'd be surprised if you wouldn't be able to fill a group or at least generate a contact list full of players looking for a meatier experience like yourself. I see people doing PF's for Min iLevel content all the time, and you could probably even make friends with these people so you have a catalogue of comrades to do such content with.

I hope this helps to explain why the game is the way it is, and gets you closer to getting the kind of experiences you want. Best of luck, friend!

This. I know it has been awhile since we have had a solo fight where we are playing as ourselves, but so many people complain about a lot of those instances being too hard. Some even do so when they set the fight to its easiest difficulty. Which makes me wonder how they completed any of their job's solo duties. Things get nerfed (sometimes into the ground) cause enough people loudly complain that what even many would probably call super easy is too hard.

[AmiableApkallu]

And for these players, iLevels increasing with each new expansion so that over time fights become easier is an important part of this game; I know numerous players who intentionally wait a few extra patches before doing MSQ content so that the trials won't be as hard. A design that locks in the difficulty of fights at a specific point forever leaves such players behind.

I think that the only content you can really outgear is the Lv.x0 content that lacks an ilvl sync, and that's because of the massive jump in max ilvl at Lv.x0. In general, Lv.x1-x9 content is implicitly ilvl synced by virtue of the character level sync. There's a reason why certain dungeons (Lv.41, Lv.65, Lv.71, etc.) are still called out as being a step up in difficulty: gear can only do so much for you.

Secondly, all of the MSQ was designed to be cleared by casuals on its release. Asking that everything have an ilvl sync down to, say, 20-30 over the minimum, or down to whatever happened to be the max on the content's release, isn't asking to pin them to some ridiculous level of difficulty. In fact, the Lv.79 and Lv.89 dungeons are already synced down to 30 ilvls over their minimum, so this is nothing that the game itself hasn't already shown itself willing to do.

Really, the major advantage of waiting to run the MSQ is not gear. It's the fact that the people you're randomly grouped with will likely have experience, and it's hard to understate how far knowledge and experience will get you and your party.

[LilimoLimomo]

I think that the only content you can really outgear is the Lv.x0 content that lacks an ilvl sync, and that's because of the massive jump in max ilvl at Lv.x0. In general, Lv.x1-x9 content is implicitly ilvl synced by virtue of the character level sync. There's a reason why certain dungeons (Lv.41, Lv.65, Lv.71, etc.) are still called out as being a step up in difficulty: gear can only do so much for you.

Yup, agreed.

Secondly, all of the MSQ was designed to be cleared by casuals on its release. Asking that everything have an ilvl sync down to, say, 20-30 over the minimum, or down to whatever happened to be the max on the content's release, isn't asking to pin them to some ridiculous level of difficulty. In fact, the Lv.79 and Lv.89 dungeons are already synced down to 30 ilvls over their minimum, so this is nothing that the game itself hasn't already shown itself willing to do.

I'm not sure if I agree; I'd really want to hear from the most casual players to see how that would impact them before claiming that it wouldn't be negative for them. Though I would caution against underestimating how unskilled casual players can be, especially since on of FF14's weaknesses is its poor ability to teach players how to play the game.

What I can definitely say is that there have been times in the past when in my opinion CBU3 has missed the mark for casual content in MSQ. For example, on release "Seat of Sacrifice" is exactly the kind of content I'd like to satisfy my "midcore" needs; needless button-mashing aside, it hit the sweet spot for me and was meaningfully more difficult than the bulk of other MSQ content. And I saw this reflected in my casual friends' experiences as well, as trying to do this content on released stressed them out and resulted in them waiting longer to reach the conclusion of a story they were really into.

Really, the major advantage of waiting to run the MSQ is not gear. It's the fact that the people you're randomly grouped with will likely have experience, and it's hard to understate how far knowledge and experience will get you and your party.

This is definitely true. But I would also say that the improved gearing also improves knowledgeable players' ability to carry the newer/less-experienced players who are beating it for the first time.

[Vyrerus]

So much for the friendliest community.

It's a bit off topic, but the community for FFXIV that built up its repute as being friendly and welcoming is not the same as the forced smiles one that inhabits it now.


FFXIV initially came out in 2010, relying on pulling players from FFXI as the start of its playerbase. Many folks were unhappy with FFXI, especially if they hadn't gotten into its endgame or if Abyssea had soured their feeling of progress completion. Those folks, along with people wanting a more beautiful MMO made up the FFXIV 1.0 legacy playerbase, and quite a lot of them were nice people or at the very least chill.

1.0 didn't do so well, but a lot of those players stuck around. Square remade the game. 2013 sees ARR 2.0 come out.

Within the first year, drifters from other MMOs played FFXIV to see if it would surpass WoW or other MMOs they were interested in, and there was a dip in the cordialness of players. However, by mid-late 2014 a lot of these folks decided they'd seen all there was to XIV, and left it assured of their own superiority and XIV was another bland nothingburger. The people who continued playing were largely chill. This grouping included the first really large swathe of ex-WoW players who were looking to escape WoW's atmosphere.

As time went on, FFXIV's popularity grew. Each year there would be more and more players. Either entirely new to MMOs or WoW refugee waves. By 2016 the WoW refugee wave hit that brought in the likes of Zepla. I don't have a hard source, but this is about the time that I took notice that word of mouth really started to constantly barrage internet spaces with, "FFXIV's community is so polite and kind!" And this was somewhat true.

But while it was growing, FFXIV was succeeding at alienating longtime players. In ARR the raiding scene had no difficulty tiers, except for Second Coil due to a salty dev team being upset World Firsters beat it in a week. The raid fights for Binding Coil were originally what I'd consider a half way house between the Savage we have now and the Normal we have now. Second Coil was even harder overall but still fair. Final Coil was mainly a gear/comp check, but still quite challenging though certainly far from impossible. Heavensward raiding introduced the Normal/Savage dichotomy across every raid tier, and this alienated the progression that had been part of ARR because quite a large swathe of longtime statics could not beat Gordias. Nor could they beat Midas if they stuck around. Around this time, half of my friendslist at the time logged out, never to login ever again.

While this doesn't seem too important, it was the first sign that the playerbase would gradually be replaced as time went on.

By Stormblood, many more players from WoW and elsewhere had started to flood the game, and with them came very heightened diva personalities attracted to the few diva personalities(influencers) that already existed in XIV's landscape. With the reworking of cross class skills into role skills being advertised by word of mouth as improving/making the game more accessible, a lot more folks piled into FFXIV. Influencers were honeymooning hard, until about the Byakko ~ Tsukuyomi patch lull unable to get the quick highs they were expecting from XIV from Eureka.

Some folks started to mark the game as in decline, myself included, but the response to this was broadly, "Don't doomsay" and "They're trying something new! We only lost 1 dungeon per patch! Grow up!"

Shadowbringers came around in 2019, and it was lightning in a bottle. The story and presentation were so magnificent that everyone's faith in the game skyrocketed to new highs, and the positive reviews brought in more players than ever before. This included quite a few more WoW people and even a WoW influencer or two. Then, in very late SHB, WoW went into decline due to Blizzard's actions, and we even got their top streamer, Asmongold, playing FFXIV. By this point, the original playerbase for FFXIV that had cultivated that positive rep was only alive in individuals. It had been entirely replaced or consumed by ex-WoW and completely new people, causing a gradual shift towards rude, memetic behavior to become absurdly commonplace. But Asmongold was saying it had a more positive atmosphere than WoW, so WoW must truly have been a bed of pure sewage!

Now, it's important to note that while SHB had magnificent presentation and story, its gameplay loops were largely unchanged and there was less of them. There was no Deep Dungeon as there had been in Stormblood, and there were two less exploratory zones. This was handwaved by the playerbase at the time, and I think still, as being due to the additions of Duels, Castrum Lacus Litorum, Dalriada, and Delubrum Reginae (S). Yet, Expert roulette was down to two dungeons and there was only 1 dungeon per major patch. Meaning less dungeons than ever before as well. This, combined with the tanking rework and dumbing down of healers meant that casual play dried up exceptionally quick. But we got a Nier Crossover, which made all the youngin's even more happy, because Nier Auto-Tomato was quite popular, so substance behind the content be damned!

It is also during SHB that the game hit its 10 year point in existence, and quite a few people who came in during StB and SHB were actually not even teens when ARR came out. So we the playerbase of FFXIV started to field people just at the end of puberty en masse, who've no mind for good conduct OR only the mind of what they heard was good conduct from people with a skewed sense of what good conduct entails.

And so here we are now in late post Endwalker. The old playerbase is more or less a ghost. Some of their opinions can still be found here on the forum if you're willing to rob their graves.

All of this was a very roundabout way of saying that it's no longer the nicest playerbase, and it really hasn't been for a few years now. In fact, if it were a venn diagram with the playerbases that were eschewed in favor of it, we'd almost have a perfect circle.