Data from lucky bancho about participation in field content

[Supersnow845]

Username: this is a generalised reply and doesnt come back to you at all.



...what you are reading is the perpetual whining of a tiny band of malcontents who dont know what the playerbase wants, is drawing a long bow based on partial or highly incomplete data, and in fact has no idea of the entire picture, since they do not have access to any metrics or data held by Square Enix, who in fact DO have this data , and know what they are doing and why.



No.



Each persons motives are their own, we have zero data to indicate any kind of trend.



There is no proof of any kind to show this even remotely resembles any such sweeping statement. No one knows. Unless you speak to each and every player or conduct some kind of comprehensive survey, the above is again assuming facts not in any form of evidence.



Using THIS echo chamber as any kind of actual representation of the millions of players nmo one has ever consulted?

No.



I believe so, yes. They would mind and care. Very much so.

Take one look at the Annotated Endwalker MSQ panel to get a general view of the complexities in the story we have seen. That alone is a graphic example of how little any of us know on how the MSQ content is even designed, let alone created.

Username: this really comes down to three words when trying to assess what players want and dont want.

We. dont. know.

I prefer to take the perspective of “incomplete data is better than approach you and striker go with which generally involves ‘since we can’t definitively disprove one way or the other I’m going to use that as proof that I’m correct’”

I don’t care if it’s incomplete present some data or your own if you have a point to make, we don’t need any more “raid crafting gear isn’t raid crafting gear because it doesn’t directly say ‘raid gear’ on it”

[VelKallor]

I prefer to take the perspective of “incomplete data is better than approach you and striker go with which generally involves ‘since we can’t definitively disprove one way or the other I’m going to use that as proof that I’m correct’”

I never said that.

I said we dont know. We dont.

We dont have access to data that Square Enix does, so what we do have is partial at best, along with conjecture based on limited information that may or may not be correct or even accurate.

I don’t care if it’s incomplete present some data or your own if you have a point to make, we don’t need any more “raid crafting gear isn’t raid crafting gear because it doesn’t directly say ‘raid gear’ on it”

Never said that either. Go back to those posts for context.

I cant present any other data because I dont have it, neither do you, neither does anyone here. I dont understand why its so hard to utter those words "I dont know". Because we dont. We have partial data, some statistics, but that isnt the entire dataset, as for why people play?

Each has their own reasons for doing so. I cant speak to what people on EU enjoy or dont, why they play and what they do and dont like.

We can try and generalise, sure, but what we dont know is 1000 times greater than what we do.

[Koros]

I prefer to take the perspective of “incomplete data is better than approach you and striker go with which generally involves ‘since we can’t definitively disprove one way or the other I’m going to use that as proof that I’m correct’”

I don’t care if it’s incomplete present some data or your own if you have a point to make, we don’t need any more “raid crafting gear isn’t raid crafting gear because it doesn’t directly say ‘raid gear’ on it”

theres literally no point talking to that grandma

if you do all you get is the feeling the employees of their store felt when they waved their authority around as a petty store manager

[Supersnow845]

I never said that.

I said we dont know. We dont.

We dont have access to data that Square Enix does, so what we do have is partial at best, along with conjecture based on limited information that may or may not be correct or even accurate.



Never said that either. Go back to those posts for context.

I cant present any other data because I dont have it, neither do you, neither does anyone here. I dont understand why its so hard to utter those words "I dont know". Because we dont. We have partial data, some statistics, but that isnt the entire dataset, as for why people play?

Each has their own reasons for doing so. I cant speak to what people on EU enjoy or dont, why they play and what they do and dont like.

We can try and generalise, sure, but what we dont know is 1000 times greater than what we do.

Because I have presented data, incomplete as it is that backs up my assertion, you have given nothing other than “well since the data is incomplete we can infer literally nothing”

Data is incomplete all the time and we can still infer things from it, none of this would be necessary if square had a half way competent person who would actually interact with us on the forums but as it stands we don’t and I’d rather make inferences based on half data than “if you aren’t from square enix themselves you can make no inferences at all”

[DixieBellOCE]

We dont have access to data that Square Enix does, so what we do have is partial at best, along with conjecture based on limited information that may or may not be correct or even accurate

Yet we do have the data, and you deny it every single time somebody brings it up because it disproves basically every single thing that you say.

You cannot hide some things on lodestone, so those figures are 100% accurate. The rest is as accurate as it can be based on very realistic variables.

The rest of it is widely accepted by the XIV community as our only source of census data, just because you keep crying "BuT ItS NoT FrOm SqUaRe EnIx sO ItS NoT ReAl" doesn't mean that its fake. It just means that you personally cannot or will not accept that you have no clue what you are talking about, just like all your comments about savage raiding being "A small minority in the community" when in reality 300,000 out of 1.2m players actively clear savage fights on patch.

I don't think anyone takes anything you say seriously at this point, because if it isn't matching your agenda you refute it like your life depends on it.

[VelKallor]

Like it doesn't matter if someone brings up Exploratory Zones in a Discord, r/ffxiv, r/ffxivdiscussion, XIV Twitter-sphere, etc — I'll consistently see people pop-in pointing out how much hostility there was about "glorified FATE grinding" and that "people only did it because they had to for Relics".

The fact that these zones are dead now, with only a smattering of players as opposed to a full zone in Shadowbringers kinda lends credence to my own about how the content has a limited shelf life.

Doesnt it?

My general point is in response to your own, that we know very little about general trends in what players do and dont want.

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah I agree with that, I just can't quite "put my finger" on why.

I have this vague sense that there used to be a lot less of an aura of "exhaustion" with having to "do" anything in the game, and players having a little more zeal for "playing just to play", with the rewards being mostly a bonus for doing that, rather than the explicit purpose.

But I can't tell if it's just coloured selective memory or not.

And I think you may be right that it's partially something to do with a certain sense that something is "off" about XIV's reward structure at some fundamental level, though this isn't an area that I feel confident elaborating on further since it's not something I personally think about too much (because I'm not a collector-type and I'm personally not motivated by much besides 'Is this fun for me to play').

I'm similarly no collector and have been just taking things easy (lack of patience for static play after work, then grad school, etc.) and mostly just play whatever I feel like playing... but the fact that, say, Savage statics increasingly ramp up their ilvl requirements well above the default minimum so that one has to have done the previous tier or dropped millions on the new crafted gear just to be able to play it before its forks into just farm parties and trap parties, and I will occasionally feel pressure during a week I can't play much to just, say, get my tomes via the most efficient way possible so that I can retain the ability to PF Savages (usually just on my tank char of late) on at least one gear class.

I definitely got the same impression that there has been a shift and would agree that changes in zest and zeal are largely to blame, but I really do think the reward schemes both take the remainder of the cause... and probably indirectly caused much of that change in player (in)tolerance. But, I'm likewise not the best positioned to speak on the exacts of those problems in the fundamental reward schemes or what ought to be done about them.

All I can wish for presently is very rough: that 7.x and onward increasingly tries to break down, shorten, or thin out barriers between week-one-participants, between "real" content and all else, and between with-obvious-rewards content vs. transient content (for most, get your weapon/accessories and be off) vs. purely optional/no-obvious-rewards content -- better letting us instead just play what we want, with far less pressure to get in on the release rushes

[DixieBellOCE]

Because I have presented data, incomplete as it is that backs up my assertion, you have given nothing other than “well since the data is incomplete we can infer literally nothing”

Data is incomplete all the time and we can still infer things from it, none of this would be necessary if square had a half way competent person who would actually interact with us on the forums but as it stands we don’t and I’d rather make inferences based on half data than “if you aren’t from square enix themselves you can make no inferences at all”

Imagine when Vel finds out that the Australian Government outsources their census data collection, so the data does not come from the government themselves, therefore it must be fake and Australia is a dead country inhabitted by kangaroos and everyone is a paid actor, because there is no real data directly from the Australian Government.

[VelKallor]

I don't think anyone takes anything you say seriously at this point, because if it isn't matching your agenda you refute it like your life depends on it.

No, we dont have the data, nowhere near it, and speaking from long experience, partial data used to broadly generate a conclusion usually ends in tunnel vision.

The rest of it is widely accepted by the XIV community as our only source of census data,

My point exactly. The only source.

"BuT ItS NoT FrOm SqUaRe EnIx sO ItS NoT ReAl"

Seems to me common sense in accepting the fact that what we dont know is much larger than what we think we do.

[Koros]

speaking from long experience

At some point you need to realize age doesn't confer correctness.

You literally only come here to feel superior over the "kids" who complain about the game, there's like zero point. It's obvious you know you the facts aren't on your side. You'll just never say it.

Sorry you don't actually understand statistics. Finite sample inference is a thing, in fact it's the only thing in reality. If you want to dispute this you not only never worked in any relevant industry employing data, you also failed basic high school stats.

Of course you'll dispute this, and just like you bring up your nonexistent Mythic raiding experience you'll probably bring up your nonexistent data science experience. I look forward to you explaining how Holder's inequality is used to provide a bound on the MSE of LASSO.